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Tracking P85D delivery thread
- Thread starter andrewket
- Start date
So I really do not want to fan flames, but to those who are confused why some are so upset, I will chime in on my own feelings here.
I have ordered plenty of cars before from BMW and Porsche, and observed friends and family who ordered Mini and Mercedes.
Comparing to these marques, Tesla's order handling process is bar none, the worst.
Tesla told me the delivery date of 12/18 weeks ago, and quoted me out for trade-in. I was asked to turn the car in within 7 days. Turning in my daily driver is less than ideal, so I said we would revisit this when we get closer.
Now that the car has entered production, Tesla started up this quote process again. I was told last week that I would have a quoted price by the end of day Monday. On Friday I was told that someone would need to come out to do an inspection, and asked for an appropriate time. I suggested 12:30 on Monday. I was told that someone would come at 12:30 on either Monday or Tuesday. (Oh, that's fine, I'll just hang out at home for two days!)
As we all know, there have been delays, and while it is possible I will still get my delivery on the 18th, it's pretty unlikely at this point. When I ask what my status is, I am told that it's still in "Paint".
I'm certain after Tesla quotes the trade-in, I will again be told to hand the car over within 7 days, with no guarantee of when they will deliver.
I have been trying to work out financing terms with Tesla, but due to the particulars of my circumstance (I own my existing car free and clear, and it has a very high value), I am told that they cannot work out terms for me until they have a price -- specifically, the trade-in value is certainly above 40% of the value of the car, and would therefore make the loan value less than the minimum of the Resale Value Guarantee terms -- and Tesla is unsure if they can cut me a refund check for the difference or not, and will only be able to answer that question AFTER they complete the new trade-in quote.
Any other car company would have this figured out in one day, at the dealership, with no back and forth -- but now I am dealing with 2 different people at Finance (who cannot give me a straight answer), and two different DS (who also cannot give me a straight answer).
On top of all that, it sounds like probably there was problem building the car, and I have to wonder if I will have a one-off hand repair for some faulty weld that will fail 5 days after the warranty expires, since it is clear that Tesla did not do assembly-line prototype testing, but is rather using our cars for this purpose.
So Tesla keeps trying to push on me to trade in, yet does not want to answer questions about the finance or delivery.
At the same time, I asked Tesla a very simple question "What is the maximum insurance deductible allowed by the financing terms?" Answer: "I don't know."
That's just bad customer service.
If Tesla came out and said "We are fine tuning some issues, and may need to re-issue your VIN, and will not deliver your car until January or February" that would be FINE for me -- but as it is, I cannot plan to go on a vacation because Tesla MIGHT deliver a new car on 12/30. For Tax purposes, a 2014 delivery will be much more ideal than a 2015 delivery for me, as I may not be able to take the $7500 deduction next year.
Any truthful answer and realistic delay timeframe is better than what they are doing now.
I have ordered plenty of cars before from BMW and Porsche, and observed friends and family who ordered Mini and Mercedes.
Comparing to these marques, Tesla's order handling process is bar none, the worst.
Tesla told me the delivery date of 12/18 weeks ago, and quoted me out for trade-in. I was asked to turn the car in within 7 days. Turning in my daily driver is less than ideal, so I said we would revisit this when we get closer.
Now that the car has entered production, Tesla started up this quote process again. I was told last week that I would have a quoted price by the end of day Monday. On Friday I was told that someone would need to come out to do an inspection, and asked for an appropriate time. I suggested 12:30 on Monday. I was told that someone would come at 12:30 on either Monday or Tuesday. (Oh, that's fine, I'll just hang out at home for two days!)
As we all know, there have been delays, and while it is possible I will still get my delivery on the 18th, it's pretty unlikely at this point. When I ask what my status is, I am told that it's still in "Paint".
I'm certain after Tesla quotes the trade-in, I will again be told to hand the car over within 7 days, with no guarantee of when they will deliver.
I have been trying to work out financing terms with Tesla, but due to the particulars of my circumstance (I own my existing car free and clear, and it has a very high value), I am told that they cannot work out terms for me until they have a price -- specifically, the trade-in value is certainly above 40% of the value of the car, and would therefore make the loan value less than the minimum of the Resale Value Guarantee terms -- and Tesla is unsure if they can cut me a refund check for the difference or not, and will only be able to answer that question AFTER they complete the new trade-in quote.
Any other car company would have this figured out in one day, at the dealership, with no back and forth -- but now I am dealing with 2 different people at Finance (who cannot give me a straight answer), and two different DS (who also cannot give me a straight answer).
On top of all that, it sounds like probably there was problem building the car, and I have to wonder if I will have a one-off hand repair for some faulty weld that will fail 5 days after the warranty expires, since it is clear that Tesla did not do assembly-line prototype testing, but is rather using our cars for this purpose.
So Tesla keeps trying to push on me to trade in, yet does not want to answer questions about the finance or delivery.
At the same time, I asked Tesla a very simple question "What is the maximum insurance deductible allowed by the financing terms?" Answer: "I don't know."
That's just bad customer service.
If Tesla came out and said "We are fine tuning some issues, and may need to re-issue your VIN, and will not deliver your car until January or February" that would be FINE for me -- but as it is, I cannot plan to go on a vacation because Tesla MIGHT deliver a new car on 12/30. For Tax purposes, a 2014 delivery will be much more ideal than a 2015 delivery for me, as I may not be able to take the $7500 deduction next year.
Any truthful answer and realistic delay timeframe is better than what they are doing now.
NigelM
Recovering Member
No confusion on my part as to why folks are upset, and I think that goes for most people, we just try to keep it calm here so that folks don't start attacking each other. Communication on issues/problems has long been the Achille's heel for Tesla but we live in eternal hope that they'll eventually get better at it. Sorry to hear your story though.
I personally would love to get a delivery early January, but my delivery specialist has advised that all deliveries for January and February 2015 have been booked for international cars.
(Got no idea why that makes a difference), but it really means December or March, in which case I really am hoping for delivery this month.
(Got no idea why that makes a difference), but it really means December or March, in which case I really am hoping for delivery this month.
Jaff
Active Member
Same thing here...almost...my DS said the car will enter the build process on Dec 8th...not sure what they're building though as the "My Tesla" page says "In production. The Tesla factory is building your."
Hey, maybe I'm gettin' the new Roadster!...SWEET!!!! :smile: :wink:
Hey, maybe I'm gettin' the new Roadster!...SWEET!!!! :smile: :wink:
MarcG
Active Member
Quick update from my DS:
So "a few more days at the least" is the best estimate I have at this point. Not much to go by...
So "a few more days at the least" is the best estimate I have at this point. Not much to go by...
I think that "few more days" is the few more days I'll be waiting - for whatever we're waiting for - still In Production, so much for my optimistic "it'll be done by the end of the weekend" claim 
A relatively small number of people are agitated. It will pass once they get their cars this month. I view the stock price decline as a buying opportunity and have added to my portfolio. Elon is a sci-fi fan and likes to tweet. I'm sure he and his team are busy resolving whatever issues are on their plate right now. Breathe...
I think a few assumptions are possibly incorrect on this thread.
Assumption one: Tesla will try and make their numbers by shipping as many cars as possible in the current quarter.
Elon has specifically said he's not interested in short term stock valuations, and that delivery does not equal demand.
source: http://seekingalpha.com/article/2647055-tesla-motors-tsla-ceo-elon-musk-on-q3-2014-results-earnings-call-transcript
Assumption two: The delay is either back seats, EPA mileage, or fit and finish issues.
As a software developer, I think it's more likely a software issue, either with the AWD algorithms or with the autonomous driving features like lane changes. I saw rows of P85Ds lined up ready to go at the factory, and the production line had interspersed P85Ds, 60s, and 85s, all colors also interspersed, with about one in 6-7 cars being a P85D. If I were to hold up a delivery, it would not be for something fixable in the field. It would be for crucially important functions like steering, collision detection, or electrical issues. I have no information to confirm this, but I think safety software is a probable cause.
Assumption three: Tesla is slipping its deliveries.
I think this is true for the first couple of cars. However, even though my car is in production, it says the "estimated" delivery date is December. I think most of us, definitely myself included, have been way optimistic what the estimated delivery windows meant. Given AWD means a whole new set of drive by wire calculations, if they fix this in the next few weeks, most deliveries should be close to the target dates.
After my factory tour, I am incredibly bullish on Tesla long term. I do see that they're a brand new company, and have the growing pains of any new company, but so far their commitment to delivering the best car possible, both long term and short term, is a better metric than delivery dates. I'm kicking myself I didn't buy stock in them back when they started with the Model S.
Assumption one: Tesla will try and make their numbers by shipping as many cars as possible in the current quarter.
Elon has specifically said he's not interested in short term stock valuations, and that delivery does not equal demand.
source: http://seekingalpha.com/article/2647055-tesla-motors-tsla-ceo-elon-musk-on-q3-2014-results-earnings-call-transcript
Assumption two: The delay is either back seats, EPA mileage, or fit and finish issues.
As a software developer, I think it's more likely a software issue, either with the AWD algorithms or with the autonomous driving features like lane changes. I saw rows of P85Ds lined up ready to go at the factory, and the production line had interspersed P85Ds, 60s, and 85s, all colors also interspersed, with about one in 6-7 cars being a P85D. If I were to hold up a delivery, it would not be for something fixable in the field. It would be for crucially important functions like steering, collision detection, or electrical issues. I have no information to confirm this, but I think safety software is a probable cause.
Assumption three: Tesla is slipping its deliveries.
I think this is true for the first couple of cars. However, even though my car is in production, it says the "estimated" delivery date is December. I think most of us, definitely myself included, have been way optimistic what the estimated delivery windows meant. Given AWD means a whole new set of drive by wire calculations, if they fix this in the next few weeks, most deliveries should be close to the target dates.
After my factory tour, I am incredibly bullish on Tesla long term. I do see that they're a brand new company, and have the growing pains of any new company, but so far their commitment to delivering the best car possible, both long term and short term, is a better metric than delivery dates. I'm kicking myself I didn't buy stock in them back when they started with the Model S.
OConnorStP
Member
Just checked on my car (which started on 1-Dec). It's in the noise-checking and burn-in phase, which is pretty close to the end of production. So my DS Nathan's estimate of delivery in a couple weeks is holding up pretty well. He's got a *lot* of cars to deliver up here in Minneapolis this month. I'm a little reluctant to share the number without his permission, but our tracking spreadsheet is a pretty small percentage of the P85Ds headed this way.
Scothawk
Member
OConnor, how do you know "where" in production your car is? Did Nathan share this with you, or is there another way to see how close your car is to being finished? And I agree....he does have a lot of P85D's to deliver out of Minneapolis!
OConnorStP
Member
FredTMC
Model S VIN #4925
And how long have they been delivering 30,000+ cars with over 7,000 employees compared to Mercedes? It doesn't get them off the hook for mistakes but certainly puts it in context. They simply don't have the experience and processes in place of a BMW or Mercedes. This is good and bad. I don't know of any other car company that you can email the local service team and they call or email back usually within hours.
Word on my car today: Still in California which makes the latest given 12/12 date impossible. (Virtually no way to ship from Fremont to Devon, PA between now and then.) Waiting to hear back on what will now be the fourth delivery date I've gotten...
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My Tesla still shows In Production. No further details available regarding the nature of the delay... *sigh*
I think I need to do another 0-120 run to raise my spirits again... lol
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My Tesla still shows In Production. No further details available regarding the nature of the delay... *sigh*
I think I need to do another 0-120 run to raise my spirits again... lol
Cars can be shipped same-day:
automotive shipping, automotive industry solutions, auto parts transportation
(It's just very expensive).
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Have they at least said where in production your car is? I keep getting told it's in "Paint", which seems ... implausible after two weeks.
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