Tracking P85D delivery thread

[Andyw2100]

However, preheating for some reason did not improve regen in the cold environment, as others had commented before. I have to experiment more with this feature.

New owner here too. I have not experimented with this yet, but I do know from reading that for pre-heating to work to heat the battery and positively impact regenerative braking, you have to have range mode set to off. With range mode on, pre-heating won't heat the battery.

 

[electrish]

New owner here too. I have not experimented with this yet, but I do know from reading that for pre-heating to work to heat the battery and positively impact regenerative braking, you have to have range mode set to off. With range mode on, pre-heating won't heat the battery.

Andy, Thanks for that tip!
Because of the range "fiasco", I indeed had my car set to range mode.
It's weird that you have to disable that while plugged in and then enable it when starting to drive.
It would also be nice to be able to control this remotely.

 

[wk057]

Really good review by electrish. So spot on.
My biggest disappointment was also the road noise.....had read lots about the silence of the car.
The shorter range may be annoying on road trips but is a non issue around town. I am coming from a 230 mile ICE and a 70 mile EV so even in its current iteration the D has great range.

I wouldn't exactly say the range issue is not a problem around town. For example, at 25 MPG and $2.25/gallow, that's $0.09 per mile. The national average electricity price is about $0.14 per kWh. Also there are efficiency losses in charging, somewhere in the 90% efficient range. For simplicity lets say 95%, which is generous. So, that means the car has to get less than 610 Wh/mi in order to be less expensive on fuel per mile than a 25 MPG ICE vehicle, using national average electricity prices.

My grid power is only $0.09 here, so, that puts the same comparison around 1000 Wh/mi, so not a huge issue just yet...

However, let's look at California, Tesla's home state. Average cost the Dept. of Energy shows is $0.1545 per kWh. Gas average in CA is also $2.65/gal right now. So, our 25 MPG hog costs $0.106/mi. All math done, 651 Wh/mi break even point.

Then look at San Francisco, where the average cost per kWh is $0.213. 472 Wh/mi would be the same cost per mile as a 25 MPG ICE in this case...

All of it is pretty sad when I note my average consumption with my P85 was 320 Wh/mi... nearly half the cost to operate vs. ICE even with falling gas prices on a national average, and a third less where I'm at.

Just another data point, in any case, and some food for thought.

Edit: Doing the math backwards for SF area numbers, lets say we get 200 miles out of a charge (about right, real world, with the P85D), which is about 385 Wh/mi 100% to 0%, no climate control. 385 Wh + 5% charging inefficiency = ~404 Wh/mi from the wall. This costs $0.086/mi. If gasoline is $2.65, that's the equivalent fuel costs of a 30.1 MPG ICE vehicle... at the EPA range of 242 comes to equivalent cost of a 37.3 MPG ICE vehicle. Actually, I think the moral of this portion is to only use superchargers if you live near SF... lol. For my own area, at a 200 mile range I'm at least the same cost as a 62 MPG ICE. 75 MPG if I could get 242 miles...

 

[spentan]

My car P67544 is still showing "In Production"

Not sure how they're gonna make a 2014 delivery, but my DS was adamant it'll be in the last 3 days of the year.

Will call ds and confirm around midday today

 

[Andyw2100]

Andy, Thanks for that tip!
Because of the range "fiasco", I indeed had my car set to range mode.
It's weird that you have to disable that while plugged in and then enable it when starting to drive.
It would also be nice to be able to control this remotely.

No problem. Happy to be able to help another newbie!

As for being able to control that remotely, I'm not certain, but I think that was one of the things that could be done in Visible Tesla but not in the Tesla Mobile App. Unfortunately Visible Tesla won't work for me, I'm guessing as a new owner it won't work for you, and it sounds like it's not working for many people, and soon won't be working for most people, due to some change Tesla made in how they are handling third-party apps wanting access to our cars' data. Perhaps that will change at some point, or perhaps Tesla will update the mobile app and add features. But at this point I think we'd all probably agree there are more important things for Tesla to be working on.

 

[wk057]

No problem. Happy to be able to help another newbie!

As for being able to control that remotely, I'm not certain, but I think that was one of the things that could be done in Visible Tesla but not in the Tesla Mobile App. Unfortunately Visible Tesla won't work for me, I'm guessing as a new owner it won't work for you, and it sounds like it's not working for many people, and soon won't be working for most people, due to some change Tesla made in how they are handling third-party apps wanting access to our cars' data. Perhaps that will change at some point, or perhaps Tesla will update the mobile app and add features. But at this point I think we'd all probably agree there are more important things for Tesla to be working on.

No way to change range mode remotely. Best to turn it off before leaving the car, and to turn it on when you get in if you're going to use it, honestly. It has more of an impact if you park outside in the cold rather than in a garage, for example, since it seems to control the threshold temperature for actively heating the battery pack. I am kind of surprised this isn't overridden while plugged in, though.

 

[electrish]

I am kind of surprised this isn't overridden while plugged in, though.

No, it doesn't seem to be overridden while plugged in, which would actually make sense.
I just checked my car and had to disable range mode manually while plugged in.

All of it is pretty sad when I note my average consumption with my P85 was 320 Wh/mi... nearly half the cost to operate vs. ICE even with falling gas prices on a national average, and a third less where I'm at.

I think we're all in agreement here about the range/efficiency having to be fixed, but I assume that Vitaman didn't mean it was not an issue in the city from a monetary standpoint, but rather from a range perspective and potentially getting stranded.

While I don't think that any of us bought the vehicle to save money on gas, I agree that the dramatically decreased efficiency doesn't make electrical vehicles look as desirable in comparison to ICE cars as they should (and maybe the P85 was), even though you really should have used premium gas prices for your comparison. And gas prices will increase again soon enough.

 

[dennis]

I wouldn't exactly say the range issue is not a problem around town. For example, at 25 MPG and $2.25/gallow, that's $0.09 per mile. The national average electricity price is about $0.14 per kWh. Also there are efficiency losses in charging, somewhere in the 90% efficient range. For simplicity lets say 95%, which is generous. So, that means the car has to get less than 610 Wh/mi in order to be less expensive on fuel per mile than a 25 MPG ICE vehicle, using national average electricity prices.

My grid power is only $0.09 here, so, that puts the same comparison around 1000 Wh/mi, so not a huge issue just yet...

However, let's look at California, Tesla's home state. Average cost the Dept. of Energy shows is $0.1545 per kWh. Gas average in CA is also $2.65/gal right now. So, our 25 MPG hog costs $0.106/mi. All math done, 651 Wh/mi break even point.

Then look at San Francisco, where the average cost per kWh is $0.213. 472 Wh/mi would be the same cost per mile as a 25 MPG ICE in this case...

All of it is pretty sad when I note my average consumption with my P85 was 320 Wh/mi... nearly half the cost to operate vs. ICE even with falling gas prices on a national average, and a third less where I'm at.

Just another data point, in any case, and some food for thought.

Edit: Doing the math backwards for SF area numbers, lets say we get 200 miles out of a charge (about right, real world, with the P85D), which is about 385 Wh/mi 100% to 0%, no climate control. 385 Wh + 5% charging inefficiency = ~404 Wh/mi from the wall. This costs $0.086/mi. If gasoline is $2.65, that's the equivalent fuel costs of a 30.1 MPG ICE vehicle... at the EPA range of 242 comes to equivalent cost of a 37.3 MPG ICE vehicle. Actually, I think the moral of this portion is to only use superchargers if you live near SF... lol. For my own area, at a 200 mile range I'm at least the same cost as a 62 MPG ICE. 75 MPG if I could get 242 miles...

Great math exercise. Now can you please find me the sedan that does 0-60 in less than 4 seconds, runs on regular gas (your quoted price) and gets 25 mpg? I got 12 mpg in my M5, the closest car I've owned to the Model S. At $3.00 gallon for premium that is $.25/mi.

San Francisco is in PG&E territory, where you can buy electricity for $.10/kwh from 11PM-7AM if you own an EV. At 400 wh/mi, which is my current P85+ lifetime with the same driving habits as my M5, I am paying $.04/mi. 25% worse for the current version of the P85D would be 500 wh/mi and $.05/mi. Add 10% for charging losses and it is $.055.

Real world summary:
M5 - $.25
P85+ - $.044
P85D - $.055

 

[wk057]

Wasn't comparing performance. Was comparing cost per mile. And I can buy gasoline for the same price 24/7, regardless of on/off peak...

Anyway, moot points yet again.

P85D is not as efficient as claimed. End of discussion.

 

[ArtInCT]

Getting back onto topic... just passed by the Milford, CT SC. There were more Tesla Model S's in the parking lot than I have ever seen before.
Did a quick U'ey and rolled on in... I counted 16 P85D's in the lot and I KNOW there were a lot more inside.
Frankly, only 1 P85D is in the spreadsheet for a Milford, CT SC delivery.
That said, if Milford is reflective in any way of what is really going on with P85D deliveries... our spreadsheet is probably
only capturing a VERY LOW percentage of real P85D deliveries.
Tip of the hat to all the logistics guys and gals who move these cars from coast to coast over the Holidays...
The Tesla delivery team personnel must really be spread thin at this time of year with all the deliveries.

 

[breser]

With all the changes this car sees, a timeline by car number against physical changes would be much more useful than by year. End of September 2014 the cars saw a huge upgrade that can't be "seen" by production year but can be seen by number.

If you're trying to suggest that you can tell if a vehicle has the autopilot sensors based on the VIN then you're wrong. The serial number in the VIN is not a production sequence number. My September 2014 car missed the autopilot sensors and had VIN 56107. When I was dropping it off at the service center I saw a loaner with VIN 55xxx that had autopilot sensors. Outside of some database that Tesla has that provides this information the only way to know is to look at a specific car.

I don't think these words mean what you think they mean. Since you are so full of righteous indignation, you have no doubt taken a look at the contract you signed and have the relevant passages in hand with which you will enforce your claims. Would you share them with us? I think you are just imagining things, and your "patience" is irrelevant to everyone other than yourself. I think you'll discover that legally Tesla owes you nothing.

Believe it or not there is no clause allowing Tesla to change the specifications or configuration of a vehicle in the MVPA (the missing page 1 is just the vehicle configuration, my contact info and date when I placed the order). Now that's my MVPA and you'll note it has a revision number at the bottom, so I can't speak for what wk057's MVPA says with absolute certainty but I am fairly certain he had the same MVPA based on when he ordered and I did. Frankly, I was pretty shocked when I found this looking at my own MVPA.

@Bearman (EPA) One thing the EPA tests do not do for all EVs is take into consideration the effects of weather on the cars - ambient air temperatures affect battery range from the plug-in Prius up to the MS85. I assume EPA numbers are done at a consistent (or nearly) air temperature and humidity. Are they done in So. Cal or somewhere that temperature and weather are moderately consistent? I can't imagine one day, they test in 45*F and rain and the next they test in 72*F and sun.

That hasn't been true since 2008. The EPA test changed starting with the 2008 model year to use a 5-cycle drive test instead of a 2-cycle drive test. The existing cycles in the 2-cycle drive tests were a city test and a highway test (slow compared to current speed limits). The 5-cycle drive test includes those cycles and 3 new ones. A cold test (20°F, using the heater), a hot test (95°F, using the air conditioning) and a high speed test (reaching 80mph). The city, highway and highspeed cycles are done 68°F-86°F.

You seem to be under the impression that these tests take place on actual roads, they do not. They are done in laboratory conditions on a dynamo. Ambient conditions are controlled per the test specifications.

I believe these temperatures are good enough to include the impacts of temperatures on range. So in ideal weather conditions you should do better than the rated range.

 

[FredTMC]

Getting back onto topic... just passed by the Milford, CT SC. There were more Tesla Model S's in the parking lot than I have ever seen before.
Did a quick U'ey and rolled on in... I counted 16 P85D's in the lot and I KNOW there were a lot more inside.
Frankly, only 1 P85D is in the spreadsheet for a Milford, CT SC delivery.
That said, if Milford is reflective in any way of what is really going on with P85D deliveries... our spreadsheet is probably
only capturing a VERY LOW percentage of real P85D deliveries.
Tip of the hat to all the logistics guys and gals who move these cars from coast to coast over the Holidays...
The Tesla delivery team personnel must really be spread thin at this time of year with all the deliveries.

Nice. Agreed. Interesting to see if TM revels how many Ds were sold in Q4. Normally, I'd say no. But maybe because it'll be a higher percentage than at steady state (early adopter effect).

 

[Dallas1]

Went to the Dallas SC last week and it was full of P85D's that were just delivered. I'm happy to see more EV's in my historically oil-oriented city!

For me, MyTesla dashboard just updated to "Your Model S is being prepared for pickup or delivery." I can't wait!

Thank you to all who have put so much helpful information on this thread.

 

[Bet TSLA]

Believe it or not there is no clause allowing Tesla to change the specifications or configuration of a vehicle in the MVPA

Sorry, I think you mean that there is a clause: The Vehicle Configuration may be updated from time to time, subject to the terms below. But there's nothing about how stuff Elon tweeted or something you may have read somewhere are part of the official specification or configuration. Your choice on delivery is to take possession of the vehicle or not. Like most such contracts written by the seller, it's kind of hard on the buyer if the seller turns out to be untrustworthy. This is why I keep saying that if you don't trust Tesla you shouldn't buy their car.

Me, I trust Tesla to be well-intentioned and to do their best to make their customers happy, but I don't trust them to deliver new technology as fast they Elon's remarks indicate they might. I'm not an early adopter. I'm sitting here on the sidelines watching the D pioneers take the arrows. I'm just amazed/amused that such pioneers expect any different. Why the complaints when the first deliveries don't measure up? Why the exaggerated shock and dismay? That's the way it always works. Trust Tesla to fix it or find some other way to make you happy. If, after a reasonable interval, they don't make it better, then it's time to be annoyed.

 

[skilly]

Great math exercise. Now can you please find me the sedan that does 0-60 in less than 4 seconds, runs on regular gas (your quoted price) and gets 25 mpg? I got 12 mpg in my M5, the closest car I've owned to the Model S. At $3.00 gallon for premium that is $.25/mi.

San Francisco is in PG&E territory, where you can buy electricity for $.10/kwh from 11PM-7AM if you own an EV. At 400 wh/mi, which is my current P85+ lifetime with the same driving habits as my M5, I am paying $.04/mi. 25% worse for the current version of the P85D would be 500 wh/mi and $.05/mi. Add 10% for charging losses and it is $.055.

Real world summary:
M5 - $.25
P85+ - $.044
P85D - $.055

This makes more sense to me than the previous post - effectively a full charge for approx 10 bucks still seems high though when considering what we are really getting out of a charge (.05(200miles = $10). Although, a couple of more considerations.

First, i think its probably a safer to put a 16mpg rating in the ICE config...probably more realistic in the spirit of an average. Second, solar power on top of the EVA rate in California (and other sunshine states) are creating a net zero cost on a pure EV footprint. For example with solar I can sell electricity back to the grid at that peak rate during the day and then charge my vehicle at night. You can't do that with ICE. Moreover, the current price at the pump isn't here to stay - OPEC is hitting Russia hard with production to put em out of business, and they are taking a shot at other markets like Canada at the same time. We might be enjoying <$3/gal gas for now, but its not going to last.

 

[crazybrit]

You seem to be under the impression that these tests take place on actual roads, they do not. They are done in laboratory conditions on a dynamo. Ambient conditions are controlled per the test specifications.

I have been thinking about this, and it occurred to me that a dyno has four independent rolls, rather than a single road surface. I am thinking that there may be a small synchronization issue between the axles, that can cause motors to fight each other. This will not show up on dyno rolls.

 

[3s-a-charm]

Went to the Dallas SC last week and it was full of P85D's that were just delivered. I'm happy to see more EV's in my historically oil-oriented city!

For me, MyTesla dashboard just updated to "Your Model S is being prepared for pickup or delivery." I can't wait!

Thank you to all who have put so much helpful information on this thread.

Awesome! Congrats! As some have said (and I will reiterate) it isn't any easier now that the production is complete .

- - - Updated - - -

Also... @crazybrit, a fellow new D owner in Edmonton said his DS had scheduled delivery for Dec. 31 and said that due to "logistics issues" getting vehicles up from California his delivery (and likely mine) will be delayed into Jan 5-7 at best.

Fingers are tightly crossed for you buddy!

 

[breser]

Sorry, I think you mean that there is a clause: The Vehicle Configuration may be updated from time to time, subject to the terms below. But there's nothing about how stuff Elon tweeted or something you may have read somewhere are part of the official specification or configuration. Your choice on delivery is to take possession of the vehicle or not. Like most such contracts written by the seller, it's kind of hard on the buyer if the seller turns out to be untrustworthy. This is why I keep saying that if you don't trust Tesla you shouldn't buy their car.

No I did not mean there is a clause. The "terms below" dictate how the owner can change the configuration not Tesla. Please read the whole contract if you're going to comment.

The range was listed on the order form. The range is listed on the Monroney sticker (which is mentioned in the MVPA, though probably not exactly applicable here). I think Tesla would be hard pressed to convince a judge that information on their Monroney sticker and their order form isn't part of the vehicle configuration. For one thing the vehicle configuration that is on the previous page is not very detailed. It gives packages names, if for instance you ordered the Premium Interior Package (that according to the order form includes the yacht floor) and then Tesla didn't provide you with a yacht floor, I think you'd have a case. I don't see how the range is different here, it's a specification of the P85D line of the vehicle configuration.

As far as contracts go, this is very fair to the buyer. In some respects I'd almost say that it's overly fair to the buyer.

 

[dbw77]

Your dash does not show range at 105 km/h.
Basics ...
Sell the car to somebody who will enjoy it and go buy the BMW.

If you switch the display unit to "Ideal" instead of Rated, what does it say?

 

[Footbag]

Also... @crazybrit, a fellow new D owner in Edmonton said his DS had scheduled delivery for Dec. 31 and said that due to "logistics issues" getting vehicles up from California his delivery (and likely mine) will be delayed into Jan 5-7 at best.

Fingers are tightly crossed for you buddy!

My P85D (Edmonton bound) was lucky and made it to Vancouver prior to Christmas, but they also are apparently having issues getting transport lined up to deliver it to me. It was supposed to arrive today, fingers crossed it arrives tomorrow, but I haven't received word if it has been put on a truck yet or not.