Traveling by Supercharger can be more expensive than ICE

[1.21GW]

My previous Honda Civic was about $0.067 Sometimes in cold weather and using the supercharger network, I exceed that in my Tesla.

arguing over this seems pointless when 90+% of charging is at home at much cheaper rates.

Honda Civic tracked over 85k miles:

 

[one2many]

Well folks I sitting here having my "beer" break and what in the name of
Jack and coke does this mean to anyone. In 6 months I have supercharged 2 times.
Wow stop the presses. We pay around $5 for gas. I have a lot of friends that have
panels as I do so most of my juice is free. I have a lot of friends that charge at work
for free. I have some that are so darn rich, never mind. Yes we would all like to super
duper charge for free as it was on the autobahn in Germany for serval years.
Total cost of ownership it a tad bit more important.
What was the question?

 

[sduck]

$14.56 / $2.25 = 6.47. ie $14.56 would buy 6.47 gallons of fuel at $2.25 per gallon. 140 miles / 6.47 gallons is 21.63 mpg. I rounded down to 21.5mpg. I exaggerated by .1mpg. In other words, my math is accurate.

I am surprised it's so high where you were. You say you were at 90% when you left, and "topped up" to 90% again after the 140 miles. What was your state of charge when you started this topping off? Because that 14.56$ does seem like an awful lot more than it should be.

I recently did a long road trip - all of route 66, and then various other places on the way home. Around 6K miles total. In general my supercharging charges were much lower than yours, often for more miles traveled. But not always. So yes, the prices can vary, and yes, the price at that particular SC you used my be extremely high.

 

[SageBrush]

Honda Civic tracked over 85k miles:

In a similar vein I track my Supercharger usage, courtesy of Tesla.

In my first 20 months of ownership I spent $120 at Superchargers ... for a whopping $6 a month.
Ask me if I care that Superchargers gave gone up some in price over the past year.

 

[Puma2020]

We pay around $5 for gas. I have a lot of friends that have
panels as I do so most of my juice is free.

Only $5? really? I thought it used to be much higher than that when I was driving over there. Lovely country.
However, for those folks with panels, it is not free. They probably had to pay for the panels up front, so until they reach the ROI point, it's not free.
Getting back to the OP's original content, yes, currently, during a world pandemic, with our country leading the world in cases and deaths, ... Yay, we're #1 ... gas prices are relatively cheap and it may be cheaper to drive an ICE. But then you need to add in the oil changes that will be required. Maybe brakes. Insurance and tires we'll assume are roughly equal. Plus getting out of the car during the cold winters to refill the gas tank, although you have to briefly get out to plug and unplug when at the Super Charger.

 

[PACEMD]

I am surprised it's so high where you were. You say you were at 90% when you left, and "topped up" to 90% again after the 140 miles. What was your state of charge when you started this topping off? Because that 14.56$ does seem like an awful lot more than it should be.

I recently did a long road trip - all of route 66, and then various other places on the way home. Around 6K miles total. In general my supercharging charges were much lower than yours, often for more miles traveled. But not always. So yes, the prices can vary, and yes, the price at that particular SC you used my be extremely high.

That does seem high, more than I have ever paid for my weekly 150-mile one-way commute here in Montana. Here in eastern Montana, the SC price is currently $0.26/kWh. But the total cost depends on where you are charging and how efficiently you drove those 140 miles. I'm not saying I could not burn that much energy in 140 miles in my P3D, just that it would be unusual. My 150/150 mile commute is way cheaper in my Tesla than the 4Runner.

 

[PACEMD]

I should add that the speed limit on the interstates here in Montana is 80 mph. Driving at 85 mph, in the wind, cold, and unlevel ground makes efficiency poor. My average at 20k miles is 320 Wh/mi. Pushing it hard on a commute is worse. Could push it to 400+ under rough conditions. 400 Wh/mi is what the OPs numbers work out to, assuming a price of $0.26/kWh. Assumptions, assumptions.........

 

[vogz]

Sir, it appears you just want to argue, have at it, but it will be with someone else. The term “commuting” is something YOU brought up and is actually quite irrelevant to my point that supercharging is more expensive than driving an ICE vehicle.

Like you said, “as someone who owns so many vehicles blah blah”. You’re correct, I DO understand business. Which again is pretty irrelevant. I simply used the term “profit center” as that IS the term Elon used years ago when referring to his superchargers. I’m not here to argue about the dollars and cents of what it costs to install an operate a supercharger.

My point was and still is SUPERCHARGING IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN DRIVING MOST ICE VEHICLES HERE IN MONTANA. I was also simply asking if that is the same in other states.

Good day!

More expensive with a sample size of one trip in one car. Also, you didn't do the same trip in your truck on the same day. Your theoretical comparison isn't really valid without that data.

It very well might be true that on that day that supercharging was more expensive than gassing up in your truck, but that doesn't come close to supporting your blanket statement: "SUPERCHARGING IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN DRIVING MOST ICE VEHICLES HERE IN MONTANA.".

 

[SSedan]

Sir, it appears you just want to argue, have at it, but it will be with someone else. The term “commuting” is something YOU brought up and is actually quite irrelevant to my point that supercharging is more expensive than driving an ICE vehicle.

Like you said, “as someone who owns so many vehicles blah blah”. You’re correct, I DO understand business. Which again is pretty irrelevant. I simply used the term “profit center” as that IS the term Elon used years ago when referring to his superchargers. I’m not here to argue about the dollars and cents of what it costs to install an operate a supercharger.

My point was and still is SUPERCHARGING IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN DRIVING MOST ICE VEHICLES HERE IN MONTANA. I was also simply asking if that is the same in other states.

Good day!

I did not bring up commute. So here is the what I was replying to.

I don't know what the big deal is having to pay a little more than gasoline when supercharging, it's not like you're supposed to supercharge when commuting dialy.

Edited some out of the middle.

LOL, and this is about typical. I’m not arguing about charging at home being cheaper, I’m not arguing about performance. .

To the gentleman saying superchargers aren’t meant for commuting... UMM just how the hell DO you get from one place to another WITHOUT supercharging when the car doesn’t have the range to make it on a single charge? (I made a 340 mile trip, obviously the Model 3 isn’t going to do that on a single charge)

You seem to be implying occasional long trips are commuting. That is not how the word is typically used.

On the business side please refute the numbers I suggested, detail to us what you think Tesla spends building a site how many paying cars visit and how much that electricity costs them.

Most places gas stations are convenience stores and that goes a long long ways towards profitability. Supercharger sites are not profitable.

 

[Pwdr Extreme]

On the way back using the same calculations it equates to 30.1 mpg at $2.25 / gallon fuel.

Still would have been cheaper to drive my Turbo Jetta at 38mpg. So, it’s STILL cheaper to drive an ICE than to supercharge. That really is all that I am saying. (No, the turbo Jetta isn’t as fast as the M3, but similar if not more comfort, and certainly quieter. I’m not using a Prius or some other econobox as my basis of comparison)

This was on some interstate at 75mph and the rest 2 lane at 65 - 75mph. Obviously the car was more efficient this morning. Temp was in the 40’s. Clear roads.

Regarding my pickup at 25mpg. I have made that trip many, many times. 25mpg is on the low side of my average. I’ve seen as high as 29.5mpg. So yeah, it IS a fair comparison.

Cheers!

 

[holmgang]

Trailing twelve months I've spent just about 900USD total in charging costs to cover 12000 miles.

 

[Pwdr Extreme]

Oh and for those curious the lifetime average for my car at 7,038 miles equates to 32mpg using the same calculations. So the first part of the trip was abnormally high consumption. Who knows why, The second part was pretty accurate.

So let me rephrase:
Driving ANY ICE vehicle that gets over 33mpg at the current price $2.25 price of fuel is CHEAPER than supercharging in MY Model 3 in Montana.

Yes, driving the M3 may be more fun, driving my Plaid Model S WILL be more fun once I get it. (But even MORE expensive! )
LOL

Good day!

 

[Pwdr Extreme]

Trailing twelve months I've spent just about 900USD total in charging costs to cover 12000 miles.

So at $2.25 gas that equates out to exactly 30mpg. Which further proves my point.

Was that mostly supercharging?

 

[hgmichna]

Most drivers do short-distance rides most of the time, charging at home or at work. Then they do the occasional long-distance drive, vacation, family visit, weekend trip.

Only the long-distance rides require fast chargers along highways. They constitute a special, somewhat expensive service. A fast-charging station is not cheap. But in the total cost calculation for the average electric vehicle they play only a minor role.

There are two main exceptions. People who cannot charge at home or at work and people who frequently drive long-distance. They are the ones who can rightly complain about higher costs.

 

[brkaus]

Maybe I can just travel by your house and stop and charge for free? That will really help offset the cost of charging. LOL

Your welcome to stop by my house and charge for free, anytime except 2pm->7pm weekdays.

 

[one2many]

Well I still have lots of questions, why does a Motel 6 not sell rooms for $6.
Why cant you play a CD backwards.
Is it true that the Rolling Stones do no gather moss.
Why do I stay at a Hilton and not a Motel 6.
Although this point case is interesting it does not apply broadly my guess.
Life is life.

 

[holmgang]

So at $2.25 gas that equates out to exactly 30mpg. Which further proves my point.

Was that mostly supercharging?

Maybe half Supercharging. Then semi-public AC charging (office). But also public AC, free AC, free Supercharging included.

It's comprehensive total use from road trips, travels, hotels, residences, etc.

 

[tintinfish]

Well I still have lots of questions, why does a Motel 6 not sell rooms for $6.
Why cant you play a CD backwards.
Is it true that the Rolling Stones do no gather moss.
Why do I stay at a Hilton and not a Motel 6.
Although this point case is interesting it does not apply broadly my guess.
Life is life.

This is the only guy that sees the truth while rest of y’all arguing like kids

 

[AdamMacDon]

I wonder why someone with a twin turbo mercedes, a corvette and a tesla is worried about supercharging prices...

Probably because several years ago Elon went on camera saying superchargers would never be a profit center, and would be free for life. Source. The latter part I instantly disregarded as infeasible unless the company never scaled up or went bankrupt. But the fact is, they are beginning to resemble a profit center. Here in BC, electricity is $0.07-$0.14 per kWh, yet I'm billed around $0.35 per kWh. Hard to say exactly since it's unfortunately billed by the minute here, but I digress. The first part of Elon's statement looks patently false now. Even in Canada, where gasoline prices are higher than even California (enjoy about $5.00/gallon right now), it is cheaper to take most gasoline cars on a road trip than even my super-efficient SR+. An equivalent rating of 124mpg on the highway while the Merc C63s is rated around 27mpg. If you live in the US, where some of you lucky people get to pay sub $3 a gallon, it's about the same price to take a twin turbo V8 luxury car on a road trip, even if you drive it harder! Tesla seems to only be increasing the price over time, and not by small amounts to adjust by inflation, but rather more with the goal of generating profits. Source.

Regardless of what you have in your garage, your net worth, or whatever other arbitrary metric you try to dismiss this with, this is disingenuous and is unfortunate, because access to the supercharger network is a big perk of Tesla ownership, and the value prop is diminishing as time goes on, especially as EA ramps up expansion and offers similar pricing. Ask yourself if it's just a coincidence that there is no NA option for a CCS adapter? I doubt it, it's about forcing Tesla owners in North America to stick with the monopoly we have, even if EA offers cheaper prices in the future, Tesla owners won't be able to capitalize on that. If Tesla jacks the supercharging price up again by 20-40%, what good options do you have for road tripping in your EV?

 

[Daniel in SD]

Here in BC, electricity is $0.07-$0.14 per kWh, yet I'm billed around $0.35 per kWh.

Demand charges look like they're $12.22 per kW peak. So a single 250kW charger would likely have an addition fixed charge of $3,055 per month if I'm interpreting it correctly. If the charger only averages 500kWh per day that's an addition $0.20/kWh in demand charges. The electricity itself is only $0.06 per kWh. The issue is the ratio of peak power to average power of superchargers.
General Service Business Rates

It would be nice if they had time of use rates for superchargers to help even out load on the grid.