Tried a FSD subscription. It's not worth it...

I bit the bullet and tried the FSD one-month subscription option for a 1700 mile road trip this past weekend in my 2020 Model 3 Standard Plus. My opinion: not worth it.

Full Self Driving is just a terrible name for what is essentially Autopilot+. I'd imagine your commute would need to involve nothing but freeway driving to get much benefit from a $200 a month subscription, and definitely not $12000.

Summon is one of those features that's neat to play with, and might come in handy once in a blue moon. I'd pay $5 to sneak the car out of a tight spot once in a while, but not a recurring subscription.

Navigate on autopilot did relieve the necessity to keep turning autopilot off and back on every time I wanted to change lanes, which begs the question of why Tesla requires you to turn the autopilot off and back on just to change lanes. The cruise control worked the same as before, and honestly, I can handle lane changes on my own.

Stoplight and stop sign handling was terrible. It ID'd stop signs that weren't there, stopped the car in the middle of a highway, and tries to stop for most green lights unless you remember to tell it not to. It stopped for no reason multiple times during the trip. This in turn caused more safety hazards than if I just disabled it to begin with.

Autopilot is generally a great tool. You can turn it on, pay attention, and not really worry too much about your car doing things you'd rather it not do. FSD adds a whole new level of anxiety and complexity that is in no way a finished product. I can't imagine the FSD Beta being any better. I could understand it if it weren't so expensive, but at $12000/$200 per month, it is wildly overpriced. I've already canceled the subscription, and I doubt I'll be missing anything when it ends except the ability to impress friends by letting the car mope around a parking lot by itself.

("Tesla Autopilot Engaged in Model X.jpg" by Ian Maddox is licensed under CC BY 4.0.)

 

[2101Guy]

On a related note: On my morning and evening drives? Im on a 4 lane boulevard. About 5 miles each way on this boulevard. With a number of various stop lights and a couple of those flashing yellow light/signs that tell you that a stop light/intersection is about to come up. 99% of the time, there is (at least) one car in front of me. So in the real world? I use AP on this route and it works on its own/perfectly 99% of the time. Meaning, at a stoplight, it slows behind the car in front of me thats stopping, and stops. When the car in front of me moves through the green light? I move forward. With no chiming/no prompting/no having to tap the accelerator to move forward like with FSD. (assuming thats still a think with FSD. If not, ok/dont care).

And when I approach that yellow flashing light/sign? With AP, the car doesn't annoyingly slow down when it sees this light. When I had FSD (prior car) I always had to press the accelerator as FSD would slow the car down drastically. And NO one one else was slowing for this sign that was about 200-300 yards before the actual intersection. Especially when the light was clearly green. (FSD would slow the car down regardless of the color of the intersection signal).

So in reality? Even on this non interstate situation? AP works perfectly for me and in fact, I'd say for my needs on this road/this commute? It works better for me, than FSD. And for $12k less.

 

[Bubbatech]

FSD violates one of my rules: Never buy software based on a promise.

 

[Ramphex]

FSD violates one of my rules: Never buy software based on a promise.

Words to live by

 

[OliverM3]

Absolutely love the new acronym explained properly. Sets the correct expectations. Thank you for that!

It's Vegan like the seats ;p

 

[Josh740]

Maybe they should put whomever wrote the code for recognizing emergency cones and trashcans in charge of the whole self driving program. My car can spot a cone from a mile away but cant seem to figure out that the car in the other lane of a two lane road isn't a threat...

 

[2101Guy]

Maybe they should put whomever wrote the code for recognizing emergency cones and trashcans in charge of the whole self driving program. My car can spot a cone from a mile away but cant seem to figure out that the car in the other lane of a two lane road isn't a threat...

If say, 15 years ago someone said "we are going to allow testing of cars driving themselves on PUBLIC ROADS so that the bugs can be worked out while the testing occurs ON PUBLIC ROADS by TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, even though the software itself can and will do the WORST things possible, at the WORST times possible. And oh yeah, the persons doing the work/assuming the risk will pay 12 THOUSAND DOLLARS to do so"?

There is NO WAY any of us would have believed it. LOL.

 

[rrsrsr]

But it shouldn’t be that way. That’s why there’s a return policy on literally….. almost everything, just not the FSD. They know that once people pay the price after watching a bunch of shill videos on YouTube, after they actually used/tried the features and saw how they really work, probably 50-75% would want their money back.

To be fair if you watch YouTube videos 95+% of them show FSD beta make mistakes that the driver needs to take over (multiple times in most videos). I would say it’s not worth $12k hence I’m not ordering it. The Model 3 LR I tested had the FSD option (not the city streets beta, just the enhanced autopilot etc). It was clear in the test drive that is not worth it to me, although I know not everyone is close enough to a sales center to be able to test drive.

Are people really just dropping $12k without looking into what it really gets them beforehand?

 

[rrsrsr]

The gimmicky names get me. Autopilot has been an established term for many years in aero industry, and it doesn’t make the aircraft just fly in a straight line. Why call a feature with a name that’s used for another way more evolved feature in another industry?

I guess, but I haven’t really understood all the flak Tesla gets for the Autopilot name. As a layperson I had understood autopilot in planes to be something that is engaged after take off then disengaged before descent to land.

I didn’t realize until recently large modern commercial jets have auto-land capability as part of their autopilot capability. Maybe they have auto take off too … not sure?

Anyway, Tesla’s Autopilot doesn’t just make the car drive in a straight line (that would be adaptive cruise). My understanding is it’s an on-ramp to off-ramp system which is roughly analogous to what I would think is common understanding of Autopilot in aviation (though perhaps not to modern aviation tech ). To me it seems no more misleading than ProPilot or DreamDrive as examples.

 

[_Redshift_]

Are people really just dropping $12k without looking into what it really gets them beforehand?

How many people read the EULA?

While this is $12K, there are many who believe it is “Full Self Driving” as claimed by Tesla. Why?

1. Tesla as a brand is very big. People assume that Tesla is way ahead of the game when it comes to ADAS technology. Tesla is seen as cutting edge.

2. When Tesla charges $12K for it, they reason that it’s expensive because it must be way ahead of others.

3. They don’t want to feel ‘left behind’. They see their friends and relatives ordering one with FSD, and they want to keep up with the Joneses.

4. Teslas are aspirational vehicles. The aspiration now is to own the latest in electric vehicles, as these are the future. FSD is thought of as an integral part of that future.

 

[rrsrsr]

How many people read the EULA?

While this is $12K, there are many who believe it is “Full Self Driving” as claimed by Tesla. Why?

1. Tesla as a brand is very big. People assume that Tesla is way ahead of the game when it comes to ADAS technology. Tesla is seen as cutting edge.

2. When Tesla charges $12K for it, they reason that it’s expensive because it must be way ahead of others.

3. They don’t want to feel ‘left behind’. They see their friends and relatives ordering one with FSD, and they want to keep up with the Joneses.

4. Teslas are aspirational vehicles. The aspiration now is to own the latest in electric vehicles, as these are the future. FSD is thought of as an integral part of that future.

Maybe, but I think life in general would be a struggle for people that fall into all the above categories. $12k!

Don’t necessarily need to read the EULA. This info is right on the order page

“The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates.”

 

[Ramphex]

I guess, but I haven’t really understood all the flak Tesla gets for the Autopilot name. As a layperson I had understood autopilot in planes to be something that is engaged after take off then disengaged before descent to land.

I didn’t realize until recently large modern commercial jets have auto-land capability as part of their autopilot capability. Maybe they have auto take off too … not sure?

Anyway, Tesla’s Autopilot doesn’t just make the car drive in a straight line (that would be adaptive cruise). My understanding is it’s an on-ramp to off-ramp system which is roughly analogous to what I would think is common understanding of Autopilot in aviation (though perhaps not to modern aviation tech ). To me it seems no more misleading than ProPilot or DreamDrive as examples.

Regular Autopilot doesn't even allow you to switch lanes without disabling and re-enabling it. If you want Faux Self Driving to be the turning on city streets then let it be it. Add rest of the features to the regular Autopilot, if it's going to be an.... autopilot.

 

[rrsrsr]

Regular Autopilot doesn't even allow you to switch lanes without disabling and re-enabling it. If you want Faux Self Driving to be the turning on city streets then let it be it. Add rest of the features to the regular Autopilot, if it's going to be an.... autopilot.

I guess that would make sense … so never going to happen

 

[Ramphex]

I guess that would make sense … so never going to happen

Don't waste your money, at least not right now. For all we know, none of the current cars will be compatible with the final product, if there's ever a final product and not a never-ending beta.

 

[Charliek]

HI all I think you are missing one interesting point about One of the reasons they now charge $12k and make you go through the safety score training and the waiting game for the BETA. For the neural net they need massive amounts of test and case situations data, which they tried to get from mostly employees an a few early early adopters and it wasn't enough. If it was done with the limited test fleet in a few cities, then it would take decades to get to general use case for average consumer( it still might) . Then by charging $12K it makes a person more "committed" to supporting the outcome.. they probably asked . "how much would you pay to us for provide some thing that is a work in progress" 100, 500, 1000, 10000, when they hit 10K people really started to think twice ( some, I am sure stopped at $500) . the $200 /month allows folks to op in to decide if it is for them or not , sort of "pain of entry" , but most will just get a taste of if it works for them in their location and provides a value add beyond an average car. Unless you are really into it I doubt it will. I think they expected that for people on the fence or have a high expectation of perfection it slows those folks from buying.
The other way is to make all the cars >$100k and include it limiting its use to a select few ( which also might not be the best users to have it as having money doesn't necessarily make you a good beta tester, just a good money maker..) Yes, they should PAY US for being guinee pigs (and have good insurance) and maybe make people take a test/ additional training to be sure beta testing is for them ( I have actually done that for other beta projects) and then understand the limitations. but for me, an engineer, and avid AI fan, and able to understand the limitations of the beta process the thing is positively a hoot to test out!.. for me I use it all the time on side roads and long trips, and or just commuting home. it is a 99% for me at the moment ,almost level 3. it needs to be 99.9999 or better for regular unprepared use, that's gonna take a while!. Sure, I pop it out of FSD beta when i don't like what it is doing, in plenty of time and I hit the camera button to send the clip so they can improve it.
I think again it is a matter of expectation ( and the unfortunate literalization of the brand ( yes shame on them) , over hyping/ over selling). I got AP when the car was new in 2017 it was a hoot , then when the right improvements came a long I sprung for FSD ( admittedly I only paid 4K for "the dream, not the reality" It was Sooo Cool when it did it right! . but I used it every chance I got. if participating in a work in progress is not your expectation, especially at $12k then dont get it and maybe even don't get the $200month. I like paying for experiences, and this for me is a very cool experience ( albeit with the responsibility for safety that squarely on me). for me, bring on more features and improvements!!!

 

[_Redshift_]

Maybe, but I think life in general would be a struggle for people that fall into all the above categories. $12k!

Don’t necessarily need to read the EULA. This info is right on the order page

“The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates.”

That language will either not be read by many people; and/or brushed off as legal speak that is required by lawyers. The main advertisement is ‘full self driving’. It conveys a no-hands, driver chatting away with passengers as the car smoothly negotiates the evil world outside.

I know, buyer beware, but we are talking about regular humans who really don’t care to read fine, or not so fine print.

Regarding FSD adopters, that number has actually been falling steadily, at least according to this article:

Survey Reveals Tesla's Full Self-Driving Take Rate Is Declining

A new survey, conducted by Troy Teslike, among over 17,000 Tesla car owners, reveals the take rate of Tesla's Full Self-Driving Capability (FSD).

insideevs.com

If the above is true, then Tesla should really be lowering the price of FSD. However, opposite seems to be happening.

 

[rrsrsr]

That language will either not be read by many people; and/or brushed off as legal speak that is required by lawyers. The main advertisement is ‘full self driving’. It conveys a no-hands, driver chatting away with passengers as the car smoothly negotiates the evil world outside.

I know, buyer beware, but we are talking about regular humans who really don’t care to read fine, or not so fine print.

Regarding FSD adopters, that number has actually been falling steadily, at least according to this article:

Survey Reveals Tesla's Full Self-Driving Take Rate Is Declining

A new survey, conducted by Troy Teslike, among over 17,000 Tesla car owners, reveals the take rate of Tesla's Full Self-Driving Capability (FSD).

insideevs.com

If the above is true, then Tesla should really be lowering the price of FSD. However, opposite seems to be happening.

It blows my mind that someone would hit the “ADD” button to spend $12k without taking 15 seconds to read the language which is placed directly above the button. (Who knows…Maybe that placement hasn’t always been the case)

It’s possible they don’t want too many people to buy it now- they may believe that IF they eventually truly solve autonomous driving they can charge more than $12k at that point (so don’t want a lot of people grandfathered in at the “low” price). I would think that if the take rate is about 10% at $12k (even that seems high to me), perhaps it might be 75% at $2k. The second scenario would realize more current income.

 

[Goose66]

As a layperson I had understood autopilot in planes to be something that is engaged after take off then disengaged before descent to land. I didn’t realize until recently large modern commercial jets have auto-land capability as part of their autopilot capability. Maybe they have auto take off too … not sure?

Like "Full Self-Driving capability" in a Tesla, the term "Autopilot" has come to encompass a lot of things in an airplane. The Autopilot of a commercial aircraft is actually a lot like Autopilot in the Tesla where it can fully control the aircraft (heading, altitude, speed) or just some depending on what features are active (Autothrottle, heading hold, altitude hold, etc.) But the Autopilot is dumb - it will run into the ground or into a mountain or bypass the airport if you aren't paying attention. Instead, the aircraft has other features, like Instrument-assisted Landing Systems (ILS) and Flight Management Systems (FMS) that can tell the Autopilot what to do to control the flight plan - end-to-end in some systems, although it's my understanding that pilots rarely use it this way. In that way, FMS is a lot like FSD, I guess.

 

[2101Guy]

I wonder how many people who tried it at $199, then went on to say "this is sooo good? I need to spend $12k to buy it now".

 

[2101Guy]

Another factor, is that people (in the past) put weight into the CEO's words and promises and timelines and expectations, and as such, bought FSD.

And they...got fooled. Elon was Lucy, actual Full Self Driving was the football, and buyers of FSD were Charlie Brown

 

[Ramphex]

Like "Full Self-Driving capability" in a Tesla, the term "Autopilot" has come to encompass a lot of things in an airplane. The Autopilot of a commercial aircraft is actually a lot like Autopilot in the Tesla where it can fully control the aircraft (heading, altitude, speed) or just some depending on what features are active (Autothrottle, heading hold, altitude hold, etc.) But the Autopilot is dumb - it will run into the ground or into a mountain or bypass the airport if you aren't paying attention. Instead, the aircraft has other features, like Instrument-assisted Landing Systems (ILS) and Flight Management Systems (FMS) that can tell the Autopilot what to do to control the flight plan - end-to-end in some systems, although it's my understanding that pilots rarely use it this way. In that way, FMS is a lot like FSD, I guess.

Don’t let @Knightshade find out you said this