Trump will end Biden's EV (tax credit) policies

[UkNorthampton]

John Kerry discusses relationship between climate change and security

Former Secretary of State Kerry calls climate change one of the biggest threats facing the nation.

news.harvard.edu

To this concern I wish to report this article pointing out that the Special Presidential Envoy for Climate and Former Secretary of State John Kerry says that the Climate Change issue is a threat to National Security and as such has NO POLITICAL COLOR.

My opinion:-

Climate change is a national security issue, but so is energy independence. It is stupid and dangerous to depend on oil or liquified gas from petro dictatorships whether through pipelines or by ships travelling through navigation chokepoints (Red Sea, Hormuz & Malacca straits).

I want 300-500% renewables to cover dull, windless days and some storage, interconnects (High-Voltage Direct Current) to/from our neighbouring countries (and democratic/often NATO allies) as well as further afield. HVDC adoption will eventually make a supergrid bigger than individual continents (certainly in Europe with links to Morocco, eventually other parts of Africa, Asia).

 

[Raffy.Roma]

My opinion:-

Climate change is a national security issue, but so is energy independence. It is stupid and dangerous to depend on oil or liquified gas from petro dictatorships whether through pipelines or by ships travelling through navigation chokepoints (Red Sea, Hormuz & Malacca straits).

I want 300-500% renewables to cover dull, windless days and some storage, interconnects (High-Voltage Direct Current) to/from our neighbouring countries (and democratic/often NATO allies) as well as further afield. HVDC adoption will eventually make a supergrid bigger than individual continents (certainly in Europe with links to Morocco, eventually other parts of Africa, Asia).

Agree. We must get independent from petrostates as soon as possible. Petrostates don’t give a damn about the Climate Change issue, they only want to get money from fossil fuels.

 

[UkNorthampton]

Agree. We must get independent from petrostates as soon as possible. Petrostates don’t give a damn about the Climate Change issue, they only want to get money from fossil fuels.

And corrupt their hosts. Oil has been a curse for many of the populations of these countries.

Genocide through violence in Nigerian Delta, Shia oppression in Saudi Arabia, Ecuador pollution deaths & Steven Donziger - Wikipedia (whoops that was United Fruit, I mean Chevron).

 

[fholbert]

One part of Elon's message is that ALL subsidies should be cut - including to fossil fuels. That's unlikely, that's probably a key part of future electrification of the USA and the World

I'm against all federal subsidies unless it benefits me.

 

[UkNorthampton]

I'm against all federal subsidies unless it benefits me.

Carbon Tax then

https://twitter.com/x/status/1753837756793466975

The only action needed to solve climate change is is a carbon tax

https://twitter.com/x/status/1753828047009034537

fantastic video - I recommend this to everyone

 

[golferguy]

Lots of talk by DJT of ending EV tax credits etc. As long as whomever is in the White House, gets rid of the oil companies subsidy that's fine. Most American's have no idea that a)_we give oil companies $20B per year in subsidies and b) globally its about $7T.

Can't wait to see pump prices the oil companies lose that money. Of course it won't happen but that's the real, "eliminate subsidies".

SEN. WHITEHOUSE ON FOSSIL FUEL SUBSIDIES: “WE ARE SUBSIDIZING THE DANGER” | U.S. Senate Committee On The Budget

The Official U.S. Senate Committee On The Budget

www.budget.senate.gov

or Fossil Fuel Subsidies Surged to Record $7 Trillion

 

[jsmay311]

This thread title and discussion are conflating two different things:

1. The Inflation Reduction Act includes the well known EV tax credit along with loads of other subsidies/incentives for climate related products and technologies. This would require legislation to change, so it's not something Trump could do on his own. But if Republicans hold control of the House and win back the Senate, they could get rid of EV tax credits via a reconciliation bill with a simple majority vote in the Senate (without needing 60 votes to overcome a filibuster).
   
   
2. And then there are corporate average fuel efficiency (CAFE) standards that the Biden EPA has proposed making significantly stricter over the coming years, to the extent that it would essentially force automakers to make a majority of their vehicle sales EVs by early next decade in order to comply with the new standards. Opponents have been referring to this proposed change to the CAFE standards as the "Biden EV Mandate", even though it's technically not a mandate, but it's also not that far from the truth. If Trump gets elected, this is the part that he would be able to easily get rid of on his own since the EPA is part of the executive branch and the president appoints the EPA Administrator.

 

[David_Cary]

The petrostate comments from Europe remind us the the United States is a petrostate. We are at a point where damping domestic consumption through EVs, efficiency, renewables would force significant exportation and/or collapse of prices.
We have been seeing this in NG pricing for a decade. Oil is way more transportable of course. But there has to be long term concern by some in power that the oil market over time might tank if they aren't careful. They have to work hard on climate denialism internationally too.

Good point about the reconciliation process. I have a hard time understanding what is possible under that process but it sounds like for the most part anything is possible with a simple majority if they stand together (looking at Manchin). Is there a spoiler in the Senate for the Republican?- probably not.

It would seem likely that a Trump victory would also mean a united government with both houses also. Then any climate progress would have to be corporate based and only possible if they could overcome the government. I really doubt we have time to let that play out.

 

[dbeiler]

Keep in mind, the only Presidential administration that has yanked the EV tax credit thus far is the Biden administration. When the the InflationRA was signed, it effectively revoked the tax credit available to all EVs built outside the U.S., and did so with hardly a moment's notice. Where were all the fear-mongering, clickbait articles before that happened?! Don't you think all those prospective BMW, Hyundia, VW, etc, buyers would have appreciated a little advance notice that they were about to be screwed over?!

 

[fholbert]

Keep in mind, the only Presidential administration that has yanked the EV tax credit thus far is the Biden administration. When the the InflationRA was signed, it effectively revoked the tax credit available to all EVs built outside the U.S., and did so with hardly a moment's notice. Where were all the fear-mongering, clickbait articles before that happened?! Don't you think all those prospective BMW, Hyundia, VW, etc, buyers would have appreciated a little advance notice that they were about to be screwed over?!

VW and some other foreign manufacturers do final assembly in the North America, they still qualify for federal tax credits.

I like the change, I see no reason the US should provide federal credits for vehicles made in China. US imports into most countries are heavily taxed.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Keep in mind, the only Presidential administration that has yanked the EV tax credit thus far is the Biden administration. When the the InflationRA was signed, it effectively revoked the tax credit available to all EVs built outside the U.S., and did so with hardly a moment's notice. Where were all the fear-mongering, clickbait articles before that happened?! Don't you think all those prospective BMW, Hyundia, VW, etc, buyers would have appreciated a little advance notice that they were about to be screwed over?!

It was tough enough to get the bill through. They needed to agree to the sourcing rules.

But they were generous with the commercial leasing loophole to give those companies cut out time.

 

[SO16]

Keep in mind, the only Presidential administration that has yanked the EV tax credit thus far is the Biden administration. When the the InflationRA was signed, it effectively revoked the tax credit available to all EVs built outside the U.S., and did so with hardly a moment's notice. Where were all the fear-mongering, clickbait articles before that happened?! Don't you think all those prospective BMW, Hyundia, VW, etc, buyers would have appreciated a little advance notice that they were about to be screwed over?!

Leases get around this I believe.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Many article authors and comments about this are from people thinking that the Chinese EVs are only a threat to other EV manufacturers like Tesla. Wow…. Are they in for a surprise..

That's the poison pill in the IRA for Republicans.

The sensible heads know that as soon as the IRA credits are dropped, it eliminates the Entity of Concern disadvantage and the Chinese will ramp up EV and EV component production in Mexico, eliminating the tariffs and rush into the market.

So, I'd expect the Senate to act in a more measured way on the credits than the House radicals, and if anything they'd cut on the leasing exception, and roll back on other areas like NEVI funding.

 

[dbeiler]

I am simply highlighting the hypocritical response to each administrations' past actions on EV tax credits.

The 'all bark and no bite' administration threatens to revoke EV tax credits.
Reception: the sky is falling, the sky is falling!

The 'snake in the grass' administration actually revokes existing EV tax credits.
Reception: excuses and cricket noises.

 

[fholbert]

I am simply highlighting the hypocritical response to each administrations' past actions on EV tax credits.

The 'all bark and no bite' administration threatens to revoke EV tax credits.
Reception: the sky is falling, the sky is falling!

The 'snake in the grass' administration actually revokes existing EV tax credits.
Reception: excuses and cricket noises.

Just to be clear. The administration isn’t changing laws to eliminate EV tax credits. The changes are coming from Congress.

Vance unveils legislation eliminating EV tax credits

Sen. JD Vance (R-Ohio) introduced legislation Thursday that would eliminate federal tax credits for electric vehicles, the latest in a series of Republican salvos against EV technology. Vance’s bil…

thehill.com

 

[dbeiler]

Just to be clear. The administration isn’t changing laws to eliminate EV tax credits. The changes are coming from Congress.

Vance unveils legislation eliminating EV tax credits

Sen. JD Vance (R-Ohio) introduced legislation Thursday that would eliminate federal tax credits for electric vehicles, the latest in a series of Republican salvos against EV technology. Vance’s bil…

thehill.com

Signed into law by the administration. Your point is?

 

[fholbert]

Signed into law by the administration. Your point is?

No, if it was signed by the administration ALL EV credits would have been eliminated. In addition, all US made ICE vehicles would have a $7,500 tax credit.

Keep in mind the head of the Republican Party is pro coal.

 

[dbeiler]

I may have misinterpreted your earlier post as a rebuttal to blaming the administration for revoking tax credits. Are we no longer talking about the InflationRA but shifting the conversation to Vance's (dead on arrival) bill?

 

[RSpanner]

No, if it was signed by the administration ALL EV credits would have been eliminated. In addition, all US made ICE vehicles would have a $7,500 tax credit.

Keep in mind the head of the Republican Party is pro coal.

And yesterday..This>>
Mr. Trump and his team are working to find additional major donors to shore up his finances as he heads into an expected general election against President Biden. Mr. Trump has praised Mr. Musk to allies and hopes to have a one-on-one meeting with the billionaire soon, according to a person who has discussed the matter with Mr. Trump.

It’s not yet clear whether Mr. Musk plans to spend any of his fortune on Mr. Trump’s behalf. But his recent social media posts suggest he thinks it’s essential that Mr. Biden be defeated in November — and people who have spoken to Mr. Musk privately confirmed that is indeed his view.
The obvious question...wouldn't Musk supporting Trump be..a bit counterintuitive? duh...

 

[zoomer0056]

according to a person who has discussed the matter with Mr. Trump

Which person? Never mind, they're "a source familiar with the matter ".