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TSLA Market Action: 2018 Investor Roundtable

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I think we're on the same page here. If by "no short squeeze" you are excluding what some have called a "rolling squeeze," then we're good. Otherwise, I would say that in a rolling squeeze, you've got a conveyor belt of dumb bears that lose money all the way up. There are smart ones that can trade around this. I also am inclined weight to the idea that multiple multi-trillion dollar industries to be disrupted by tiny Tesla can generate really strong opposition. Losing a few tens of billions in defense of industries worth multiple trillions is a small price to pay.


rolling short squeeze in 2013? I’d thought about this too in the past and came to view that as not explanatory.


Tesla had roughly 105 million shares outstanding at the time. The peak to trough of the short position in the $40s to $180 move in 2013 was about 28 million shares short to about 17 million short (still a massive short position vs market norms). No doubt there was some replacement of older shorts with newer shorts. That said, my understanding of a squeeze is forced covering by shorts begetting higher share prices begetting forced covering by shorts. There was buying and selling by shorts netting a drop of about 10-12 million shares of Tesla short over a couple of months. If you look at the price movement and volumes of Tesla in that $40-180 4 month run, a peak of 11 million or so net short shares falling off *was *not *a *driving *force. A “conveyor belt” as you put the replacement of old with new shorts, inherently is a neutral force, not a driving one. Now, as mentioned, there actually was some net short covering (ie, so more covering than a “conveyer belt”), which was of some assistance to the upward move, but Tesla essentially had the kind of move a biotech can have when its first real commercial product gets FDA approval. Hitting the 20K/year annual run rate and a profit in Q1 2013 (along with a couple of other validating events) was effectively like a binary event where the world realized this product, the Model S, made it to market in a way that would sustain and feed Tesla rather than bleed it of its funding (ie, like Fisker and its Karma just about at the same time).
 
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Tesla Shares Slide After Reports That Model 3 Production Is Lagging

"Tesla is sending out emails to all Model 3 reservation holders in the US and Canada explaining that they need to pay $2,500 to confirm their order online or lose it."

What is this about having to pay $2500 and confirm or lose the deposit? Is this another disinformation war since I didn't see any email regarding this.

the first problem is listening to anything zerohedge has to say. while sometimes entertaining, this is more the tenor you’d expect from 0-hdg
Zero Hedge - RationalWiki

original reuters article
Tesla lagging on Model 3 production, workers say

bloomberg article
Tesla Invites Model 3 Reservation Holders to Configure Their Cars—For an Extra $2,500 Tesla Invites Model 3 Reservation Holders to Configure Their Cars—For an Extra $2,500

crappy headline, but the article doesn’t say that customers must decide “or lose it”

and by the way, i didnt mind putting a $2500 downpayment on a vehicle i know i wanted, waited over two years for, that tesla must produce, at the most critical time in thier existence.

when you lease or buy a car that isn’t on lot, you put a down payment on it.
yes you get it a few days later. but tesla’s situation is obviously different from other existing mf at this time. it’s different when you’re buying/expecting a new product not on market yet.

standing here with my friend and reading his email, nowhere does it say you lose your reservation unless you act now. you can order, cancel, or wait, period.

for those just paying attention to tesla for the first time since dropping your reservation deposit, this is the typical BS media response we’re going to experience now. get ready for a tidal wave of crap the next few days. the weekend especially.
remember, as elon has already hinted repeatedly... #dontpanic
 
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Another gem from our friend Lora: Tesla is asking Model 3 reservation holders for another $2,500 to order their cars

I though this was common knowledge. I think she needs a real job...

Dana Hull beat her to the punch by about an hour on that concern fabricating narrative,

Tesla Invites Model 3 Reservation Holders to Configure Their Cars—For an Extra $2,500


perhaps Lora’s resorting to rehashing of Dana’s FUD is a reflection of material to fabricate stories drying up for Kolodny with Mr. Tripp out of Tesla and into a lawsuit.
 
If the $2500 confirmation fee thing is false. This should be grounds for libel lawsuit. Also a class action lawsuit for emotional damages from stress and potential heart attack.

it’s not false. it’s a down-payment for your vehicle, which is to be expected considering it’s now contractual for you to take delivery of the vehicle and then be expected to pay the remainder at delivery.
 
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Not to rain on your parade, but Elon himself has answered that question on an earnings call or some other occasion (too lazy to google it now). Going to 2170 would require major re-design of the vehicle so not feasible now. Definitely sometime in the future, but not now.

Yes I was quite surprised to hear that and frankly I don't think it's the whole truth. I can think of a few basic modifications to the pack enclosure which would accommodate the new format with no modification to the vehicle structure. Probably they just aren't ready to make the change at this point in time and want to wait until they update the S and X.
 
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Well, he's not only a notorious optimist, he's a canny finance guy. His companies depend on his understanding these things better than the other guys. You can't imagine he'd leave that sort of thing to chance.

So he understands very well what sort of shock is necessary to bring on a short squeeze: a severe and unexpected decrease in share liquidity. The real question is how he'll suddenly eliminate a large quantity of shares available to short sellers.
It is not clear whether his personal loans secured by TSLA stock have a nonrehypothecation clause. They might, and they probably do. If they don't, switching to a different bank and requiring a nonrehypothecation clause would pull over $650 million in shares off the market and pretty much squeeze the short sellers immediately. Not clear whether that would be considered market manipulation, though.
 
CNBC breaking headline news: Tesla now requires a deposit when you place an order for a car.

Must be an industry first.

Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. Tesla is allowing people to progress from being reservation-holders to actually ordering a vehicle. That does (and always has) required a non-refundable order payment in addition to the reservation fee becoming non-refundable. This is so far beyond 'not news' that it's nuts to try to manufacture it into a negative. What's next?

"Rather than produce and give away vehicles, Tesla is now asking each purchaser to pay for their vehicle."

The horror.
 
I certainly question the validity of some of those articles. Maybe that's why Elon posted a pic from the pain booth just a short while ago on instagram?

35275900_1603576713098428_2056003232597016576_n.jpg
 
it’s not false. it’s a down-payment for your vehicle, which is to be expected considering it’s now contractual for you to take delivery of the vehicle and then be expected to pay the remainder at delivery.
What is false is that you must make the additional deposit or give up the $1000 deposit already made. The base model is not yet being produced. Many may be waiting for that to become available. I've read the email and looked at the order page.
 
(as a response to general discussion of a short squeeze here more so than jhm’s specific comment)

or

-the majority of the short position is about a much bigger game than actually believing/betting that Tesla is overvalued,

-which would be consistent with the fact that there was no short squeeze in 2013,

- and the prediction that there will be no short squeeze in 2018,

-and the hypothesis that those holding the bulk of the short position in Tesla are not crazy or foolish, but rather, working their ultra concentrated wealth network to keep the river of falsehoods about Tesla gushing so as much of the public as possible thinks crazy foolish things about TSLA, Tesla, and its products (ie, media miscoverage of Tesla is far from simply “clickbait” pressures).

I think we're on the same page here. If by "no short squeeze" you are excluding what some have called a "rolling squeeze," then we're good. Otherwise, I would say that in a rolling squeeze, you've got a conveyor belt of dumb bears that lose money all the way up. There are smart ones that can trade around this. I also am inclined weight to the idea that multiple multi-trillion dollar industries to be disrupted by tiny Tesla can generate really strong opposition. Losing a few tens of billions in defense of industries worth multiple trillions is a small price to pay.

(RE:the bolded text)There used to be a pretty efficient rail based trolley systems in the various larger cities of the U.S. That is until the tire companies helped kill them off. After all, who would by vehicles and tires if you could just use public transportation?

Unless/until the Market Maker's revenues from renewables (including EVs) exceed those that they receive from fossil fuel and ICE I don't believe that we'll see Tesla stock at it's true valuation.
 
What is false is that you must make the additional deposit or give up the $1000 deposit already made. The base model is not yet being produced. Many may be waiting for that to become available. I've read the email and looked at the order page.

exactly - see my former post

the first problem is listening to anything zerohedge has to say. while sometimes entertaining, this is more the tenor you’d expect from 0-hdg
Zero Hedge - RationalWiki

original reuters article
Tesla lagging on Model 3 production, workers say

bloomberg article
Tesla Invites Model 3 Reservation Holders to Configure Their Cars—For an Extra $2,500 Tesla Invites Model 3 Reservation Holders to Configure Their Cars—For an Extra $2,500

crappy headline, but the article doesn’t say that customers must decide “or lose it”

and by the way, i didnt mind putting a $2500 downpayment on a vehicle i know i wanted, waited over two years for, that tesla must produce, at the most critical time in thier existence.

when you lease or buy a car that isn’t on lot, you put a down payment on it.
yes you get it a few days later. but tesla’s situation is obviously different from other existing mf at this time. it’s different when you’re buying/expecting a new product not on market yet.

standing here with my friend and reading his email, nowhere does it say you lose your reservation unless you act now. you can order, cancel, or wait, period.

for those just paying attention to tesla for the first time since dropping your reservation deposit, this is the typical BS media response we’re going to experience now. get ready for a tidal wave of crap the next few days. the weekend especially.
remember, as elon has already hinted repeatedly... #dontpanic
 
Which is why shorts will be so surprised when it actually happens. When have shorts every believed anything Elon has said?
When one makes a public statement like that during an earnings call, I think the market watchers are going to interpret it pretty strongly. It's not like under oath in front of congress, but putting it out there so adamantly makes me at least think they are pretty confident to make it happen. I won't be surprised.
 
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