TSLA Market Action: 2018 Investor Roundtable

[davecolene0606]

Is it just me or is the myth that wealthy people don’t pay taxes absolutely ridiculous?

I am sure many of us that own Tesla’s are in the “wealthy” category. Am I the only one of us that pays a large amount of taxes?

Also - if/when I do sell my TSLA shares at a healthy gain - Uncle Sam Will again get a healthy cut of my gains.

There’s a level of wealth at which it becomes worthwhile to employ multiple methods to retain as much income as possible. That level is where real estate pass through type entities are formed along with S/LLC type entities where income is massively shielded from taxes. Additionally, the sources of income aren’t primarily from wages at this point and so are subject to lesser true rates. At this level “losing” money on ones entertainment becomes useful as well.

While the gross dollars turned over to the Gov are big numbers, as a percentage of the total economic activity generated it is FAR less than the paupers earning say $500k-$1.8m per year from employment.

As an example, one may have noticed that in the Q3 letter we discovered that Tesla’s effective tax rate was 6% which is higher than many corporations pay.

It’s about scale, and 99.6% of US folks don’t hit that mark.

(PS wait to we see our bills this April, like every deduction a little guy could still take is gone and all year long they’ve been withholding less from your pay check to make you think your earning more. Ruude awakening coming...)

Fire Away!

 

[davecolene0606]

On the off chance you really are just misinformed on US taxes, the opposite is true. Not only does the US upper class pay the overwhelming majority of the taxes, the US tax system is one of the most progressive in the world:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-least/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ef8af537c0cf

American taxes are unusually progressive. Government spending is not


The fact that so many people think this isn't the case is testimony to the power of the media to control the narrative.

It’s not about the top 10%.

Fire Away!

 

[jhm]

I'm loving the new FUD articles. "Tesla's hidden energy sales that helped profits". LOL. Way to try to spin profits as some nefarious scheme rather than acknowledging the huge upside to their non-car business.

Dangit, they weren't s'posed to know.

 

[jhm]

FWIW, I am not-an-Elon.

 

[EVNow]

Is it just me or is the myth that wealthy people don’t pay taxes absolutely ridiculous?

You mean the kind of myth where Warren Buffet pays less tax rate than his secretary or that Romney paid only 10% tax or Trump didn't pay tax for decades ?

 

[Joe F]

Mod: Most excellent replies to the question "Why invest in Tesla". They deserved a dedicated thread where people will find them, not be buried in Market action. So, I give you: Why invest in Tesla (KarenRei) --ggr

I'll vote "yes" but counter with, it should be a sticky. Karen rocked those posts!

 

[MartinAustin]

TSLA looking strong. Testing $350 is a distinct possibility

 

[jeewee3000]

TSLA looking strong. Testing $350 is a distinct possibility

First resistance level is at $348. Let's see what happens.

 

[AWDtsla]

On the off chance you really are just misinformed on US taxes, the opposite is true. Not only does the US upper class pay the overwhelming majority of the taxes, the US tax system is one of the most progressive in the world:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-least/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ef8af537c0cf

American taxes are unusually progressive. Government spending is not


The fact that so many people think this isn't the case is testimony to the power of the media to control the narrative.

Looks like cherry-picked data. Income tax bracket on high incomes in Sweden is 60%. Taxation in Sweden - Wikipedia Not to mention every country in your graph except the US somehow managed to pay for healthcare for all it's citizens, not to mention the roads. Have you seen the roads in Germany? Coming back to the US makes you think you just landed in a war zone. These roads are clearly the result of shell attacks.

 

[KarenRei]

On the off chance you really are just misinformed on US taxes, the opposite is true. Not only does the US upper class pay the overwhelming majority of the taxes, the US tax system is one of the most progressive in the world:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-least/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ef8af537c0cf

American taxes are unusually progressive. Government spending is not


The fact that so many people think this isn't the case is testimony to the power of the media to control the narrative.

Went and checked the source. It's not actually a measure of "tax burden", it's a measure of "household taxes", which they define as "income taxes and employee social security contributions".

http://darp.lse.ac.uk/resources/books/GrowingUnequal_OECD.pdf

Most of the wealthiest Americans (note: I don't think most people have much of an issue with the "top 10%", I think it's mainly the top 1%, 0,1%, 0,01% or less that people focus on) don't get most of their household income from taxable wages; they get it from capital gains. And the capital gains rate is much lower than the top income tax bracket. Or to put it another way: Elon's "household taxes" should be zero.

 

[gtrplyr1]

BMW's i4 Electric Vehicle Should Give Tesla a Run for Its Money

So .... here comes the competition with a car that won't be out till 2020? Add to that we have no idea what the actual specs are or what it will look like BUT as "The Street" says should give Tesla a run for it's money. Give me a break .... EVERYONE should email this writer and let him know what a moronic story and premise this actually is ... IF it was already spec'd out with a price and street date and compared favorably then he would have something to write about.

Sheesh ... makes me want to buy MORE TSLA ...

Cheers to the longs.

 

[defc0n]

First resistance level is at $348. Let's see what happens.

If it looks to me $350 range is broken I’ll probably buy back in with smallish position.

 

[tivoboy]

Selling weekly $350 calls at 7.25$ looks like pretty decent RR

 

[AWDtsla]

BMW's i4 Electric Vehicle Should Give Tesla a Run for Its Money

So .... here comes the competition with a car that won't be out till 2020? Add to that we have no idea what the actual specs are or what it will look like BUT as "The Street" says should give Tesla a run for it's money. Give me a break .... EVERYONE should email this writer and let him know what a moronic story and premise this actually is ... IF it was already spec'd out with a price and street date and compared favorably then he would have something to write about.

Sheesh ... makes me want to buy MORE TSLA ...

Cheers to the longs.

Visceral reaction to how ugly that thing is. Need eye bleach.

 

[Nocturnal]

Do we expect a bump if the Dems take the house?

 

[AWDtsla]

Most of the wealthiest Americans (note: I don't think most people have much of an issue with the "top 10%", I think it's mainly the top 1%, 0,1%, 0,01% or less that people focus on)

Must control alpha, and the long tail to 0. Pareto distribution - Wikipedia

I don't see why in this day an age the conversation must be at a 3rd grade level. With all this student loan debt, one would assume most people would have taken probability/statistics and should be able to meaningfully understand distributions.

 

[schonelucht]

On the off chance you really are just misinformed on US taxes, the opposite is true. Not only does the US upper class pay the overwhelming majority of the taxes, the US tax system is one of the most progressive in the world:

The income of the real upper class is defined by the performance of companies that pay very little taxes if any at all (think Amazon and yes, Tesla).

 

[Nocturnal]

On the off chance you really are just misinformed on US taxes, the opposite is true. Not only does the US upper class pay the overwhelming majority of the taxes, the US tax system is one of the most progressive in the world:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-least/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ef8af537c0cf

American taxes are unusually progressive. Government spending is not


The fact that so many people think this isn't the case is testimony to the power of the media to control the narrative.

There is a lot to unpack here so I will point out that our nominal rates are higher, not necessarily actual. Also, the greater the income inequality the greater share of taxes will shift to the wealthy. This is a very complicated topic that is subject to half truths.

 

[shootformoon]

I'm loving the new FUD articles. "Tesla's hidden energy sales that helped profits". LOL. Way to try to spin profits as some nefarious scheme rather than acknowledging the huge upside to their non-car business.

Of course that is cheating. We all know tsla is a car company. any energy sales, solar sales, even EAP sales are cheating. Because EAP is software business, NOT a car business. And supercharger sales, that is a gas/utility business. Heck, any service revenue is cheating, because that belongs to dealership, not car manufacture business.

 

[Nocturnal]

Is it just me or is the myth that wealthy people don’t pay taxes absolutely ridiculous?

I am sure many of us that own Tesla’s are in the “wealthy” category. Am I the only one of us that pays a large amount of taxes?

Also - if/when I do sell my TSLA shares at a healthy gain - Uncle Sam Will again get a healthy cut of my gains.

Definitions matter. IMO, salary earners in the low to mid 6 figures pay too much. People like your Mitt Romneys or Trumps pay far too little.