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Turkey

Discussion in 'Europe -' started by emir-t, Oct 29, 2013.

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  1. emir-t

    emir-t Member

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    Do you think Tesla will ever get into the Turkish market?

    Hey wonderful Tesla enthusiast;

    This is my first ever post on this forum and hopefully there will be many more to come. It will be a long but important post so I hope you care to read and reply.

    I am Turkish and I reside in Istanbul, like everyone else here I really want to own a Tesla Model S. The thing is, there is speculation over whether or not Tesla will successfully expand into Europe while growing their services and manufacturing at the same time with sustainable financing. Basic logic shows that considering all of those speculations, Tesla, in short term wouldn't enter into a Turkish market and increase speculations further more.

    However I think Tesla's entrance into the Turkish market is very very reasonable for the following reasons;

    When you are buying a car in Turkey there is a tax called special consumption tax and on top of that there is 18% VAT. That "Special Consumption Tax" rate is decided on the ICE car's engine volume. 37% for cars with engines between 1200cc-1600cc. 80% for 1600cc-2000cc and a whopping 130% for cars with more than 2000cc. So, cars here are really expensive. (A BMW M5 is 300K USD) Still, car sales are incredible over here. Also the Turkish economy has kept growing constantly even when Europe was in crisis and it has a nice and stable developing economy going on. Also a gallon of gas is 10$/ 2.5$ per liter. (Most expensive in the world) So advantages of Tesla would be;

    -Largest special consumption tax rate is 15% for electric vehicles. (still unreasonable I know, but drastically lower than ICE cars' rates)
    -Electricity is almost free compared to the price of gasoline.
    -Luxury sedan sales are incredible. BMW, Mercedes and Audi all are having a blast with 2000cc or less engined cars. (241,000 sedan cars were sold in 2012 in Turkey. 43% of all automobiles sold in Turkey in the year 2012, which is close to 800,000)
    -Only electric cars that are on sale in Turkey are Renault's Z.E. cars which suck compared to Tesla and they are not marketing it at all. In 2012 even when Renault Z. E. wasn't clearly in the market 200 all electric vehicles were sold in Turkey.

    So Turkish people would be buying a luxury sedan for a price of cheaper than a BMW 520i or Mercedes E180. They'd have more than double the performance of those and since you won't be paying 200$ to gas per month, it's going to be a lot cheaper in every way. Cooler, faster, cheaper.

    Also, Tesla is a really cool looking car and the hype over it would increase the sale seven further.

    Lastly, creating a supercharging network would be much easier compared to the US.

    What do you guys think? I really want them coming over here and also think it is really reasonable as their next move. I know they've chosen nordic european countries because gas is expensive there and it turned out to be a huge success.

    In fact, I am surprised that the real electric revolution has started from the U.S. Because gas is so cheap over there. I've spent the first 6 months of 2013 in California and honestly thought gas was almost free. 3.8-4$ a gallon is nothing in my opinion. Anyways, I think Tesla would be a great success in Turkey. I tried explaining everything briefly. I'd like to hear your opinion.

    It sucks that the greatest car ever with the greatest technology ever is out there but we can not have it...
     
  2. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    I was in Turkey this summer and saw the car and gasoline prices and thought that Tesla will do super-well here. A lot of similarities to Norway.
     
  3. Mario Kadastik

    Mario Kadastik Active Member

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    I'd recommend sending the same detailed information to [email protected]. I did something similar with Estonia detailing what is the infrastructure and subsidies and what kind of work I'd already done to get reasonable insurance etc and within two days got a letter back from Jerome who sent the ball rolling with lower level managers and gave in general positive feedback. This discussion is still ongoing and I can't divulge anything, but I was very pleasantly surprised to get almost immediate feedback from upper Tesla management. Or you might send the e-mail straight to Jerome (PM me for e-mail address if it's not publicly available).
     
  4. bgulerman

    bgulerman New Member

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    Tesla Model S would be priced around 65-70k euro in Turkey and considering BMW 520d starts from 78k euro people would just zerg the Tesla center to buy one.
     
  5. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    Right now there are no plans to go farther South than Rome. No superchargers between Rome and Naples.

    No plans to go farther East than Vienna. No superchargers between Vienna and Budapest.

    I don't think Tesla will bypass Eastern Europe to seriously delve into Turkish market.

    First they will fill out Western Europe like Ireland and Scotland and Eastern Europe From Finland to Greece before entering Turkey.

    Filling out the Iberian Peninsula not just the highway connection between Barcelona, Madrid, and Lisbon.

    I can see a store in Istanbul and a symbolic supercharger between Istanbul and Ankara. Maybe a two between Sophia and Istanbul and maybe two between Thessaloniki and Istanbul.

    I don't see a full commitment to the Turkish market like Tesla's commitment to Germany anytime soon.

    Maybe sometime after Turkey joins the EU.
     
  6. Mario Kadastik

    Mario Kadastik Active Member

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    I think if Turkey joins the EU they can immediately start buying the car because it would no longer void the warranty. For sure Tesla is looking at the Eastern Europe expansion because I'm in talks with top and mid-level management and the indications are positive, just no specific timescales so expect that to indeed happen before further expansion. I sure hope we'll get at some point the Via Baltica covered with superchargers allowing anyone to drive from Finland all the way down to western EU that already gets a decent SC network. It'd just help complete the circle along the Baltic sea. Probably wouldn't need many as it's ca 1500km so a supercharger every 300km would mean you need 5 or if you estimate the endpoints to be not needed, then four so an investment of 600k$ meaning we need around 300 cars in this region for it to be built.
     
  7. neroden

    neroden Happy Model S Owner

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    Tesla has been expanding rapidly into international markets. I agree with Mario: email Tesla directly and request assistance with them moving into the Turkish market. It is a market with a lot of potential (plenty of rich Turks, expensive gasoline) and it would be a good move. If you can hook Tesla up with someone who can (a) translate government regulations between Turkish and English and (b) knows something about car regulations in Turkey, I think that would probably make it go fastest!
     
  8. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

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    Hoş geldiniz.

    (OK, I had to look up zerg: apparently it comes from Starcraft where you could produce a lot of "zergs" to "zerg rush", overwhelming opponents by sheer numbers.)

    Absolutely makes sense to look into the Turkish market. Sizable population in a growing economy. But how'd the insurance premiums be there?

    Good point made above Turkey not being "connected" to lots of large economies, but the market could end up relatively large by itself. At least 74 millions, plus millions of expats in other countries. Do not underestimate international market growth through cultural connections.
     
  9. Michele Lupoli

    Michele Lupoli New Member

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    something new abt the matter? would be glad to hear some good news...
     
  10. TD1

    TD1 Member

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    Afaik Turkey has such high taxes on Gasoline and Diesel to push there people to use Natural Gas instead. Since Turkey has huge amounts of Natural Gas in the country they want to avoid a trade deficit as much as possible.
    So how does a Tesla compares to a car that is using Natural Gas in Turkey?
     
  11. balesanist

    balesanist New Member

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    Sonuç olarak Tesla geliyor mu gelmiyor mu? Net bir bilgi var mı?
     
  12. Lerxt

    Lerxt Member

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    It is likely they will not enter Turkey for a decade or more. It's not a key market and the demand will not be great. Maybe the 3rd gen will be the first Tesla there...
     
  13. Turmania

    Turmania Member

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    Greetings from Turkey,

    We can actually buy Model S in Turkey it can be bought for around €100,000 + Taxes and Duty Fees. Which is about 35% more to the original cost of the vehicle after your desired configuration. You can configure the car in the tesla website, scroll down to the bottom and select " Choose A Region" afterwards by choosing " Other Europe " add 35% to the cost and that would be your total price. Unfortunately, you have to pay direct, no car loans etc. As the original topic started said, It's a car that can and should do so well in this market in theory. I chosen a full configuration car, except the alarm option and got € 100,000 car, with 35% comes around € 135,000 but do not expect government payback or so on, they would just say we did our job by not letting you pay yearly car tax as an incentive.

    Problems are as stated earlier no supercharget stations yet, and doesnt look like coming within next 2 years or perhaps 5!
    Turks especially in the cities are apartment dwelling people, land is at premium so having a house with a garden and a garage, is for really very very low percentage of the people even amongst the super rich. There are some type 2 european type charging stations available through out the western coast of the country and the obvious major cities. I can easily go to Bodrum( Eagean coast) about 700 km from Istanbul. by having a stop at 2 charger stations along the road on the way to Bodrum. Downsize is instead of having a little break for 30 minutes in each stop as I would do on a ICE car, I would have to do more in each with these charger stations, probably around 90 minutes and it would be really handy here in Turkey, if you can get the dual charging option. I think its a must. Waiting a bit more in a charging station is not that bad if there are some adequate facilities around and considering you don't always do a trip like this everyday, it can and should be not that hard to live by. just have to make sure that you do your route planning early and would arrive maybe 1 hour later then you would with an ICE car.

    Supercharget stations are developed throughout western europe, I believe London was the latest edition couple days ago since they delivered first UK vehicles couple days ago.The most eastern part is Vienna for some time, and probably would be for a while.
    a
    My suggestion to link Europe with Turkey would be. Invest in Italy, and the Greece. there are some ferry crossing cities between them, Igoumenitsa ( Greek ), Ancona ( Italy), Bari ( Italy ), Igoumenitsa to Istanbul is around 1000KM, having about 2 supercharger stations between that road would make access to Turkey very easy.

    My suggesitons would be starting from Istanbul, first to have a station at the border with Greece, A town called Ipsala. Then, having a charging station at Thessalinik a major city in Greece. would be within the range of Model S. around 350 Km between each charging stations.

    Another route would be starting from Vienna, Budapest - Belgrade - Nis - Sofia and then Turkey this would also allow Tesla to gain access to those markets as well.

    Anyway the future is now thanks to Tesla, and when my House with my own garage is complete by the end of the year I would be buying one.
     
  14. Username

    Username Member

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    On Thanksgiving Day! Lol!
     
  15. emir-t

    emir-t Member

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    Sorry I'm reviving a thread. Just saw all the discussion.

    Great in depth analysis/point of view. However just because you can buy a Tesla here in Turkey doesn't make the option logical. Still there aren't any support for Tesla here. What if you are waitig at a red light and a car comes and crashes you? What if there's a problem or you get involved in a car accident. How will you get the 3G connection? (Idk if navigation supports Turkey) also in the long term will you be able to get maitenance? No one in the country will know about Tesla mechanics even with the slightest issue. I think it's a really risk buy in spite of wanting one more than anything. Unfortunately it seems Tesla won't be here officially in the coming decade.
     
  16. Turmania

    Turmania Member

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    I see and understand your concerns, but with all these things there is element of risk. If you want to be one of the pioneers you have to make some sacrifices. there are about a dozen tesla model s in turkey, on the road as we speak. there was recently a very bad hailing in the town of eskişehir and the owners tesla and most of his other ICE car's have been really badly damaged, beka otomotiv in turkey who brings teslas to this country is backing up. naturally spare parts and etc are not commonly available as in USA, but they are coming. at the moment, most of these tesla owners here in turkey does not own only tesla, they have ICE cars as well. but they wanted to be pioneers, as in the more users, the more it will spreak out and better infrastructure as a result.

    navigation and 3g is easy part but real time traffıc updates is not at the moment. but should be coming soon.
     
  17. Username

    Username Member

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    They're afraid of getting a "Turkish Bath"!
     
  18. kaizen

    kaizen Member

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    Hi everyone, my first post here. I think that a link between Igoumenitsa and Istanbul is now more possible than ever.
    The new european funding program ''ESPA" for 2014-2020 will start soon giving a great boost to companies who involve in "Green Technologies".

    I have a 2 storey parking in Thessaloniki, and I am interested in converting it to a charging station , by getting funding from the ESPA.

    Is it possible to talk with someone from Tesla to find the cost involved and if they are interested in expanding to Greece , for a link between Italy and Turkey?
     
  19. Kaizen,

    where's your parking located, is it near Tsimiski St (Οδός Τσιμισκή)? It would be great if you can manage to get funding for a charging station inside your parking, just another reason more to visit Thessaloniki more often when I get the Model S. Also, a supercharger in vicinity of Thessaloniki would be perfect for residents of Macedonia to connect with Igoumenitsa, and from there by ferry, either to the beautiful Ionian islands of Corfu, Zakynthos or Lefkas, or to Italy and so on.
     
  20. emir-t

    emir-t Member

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    We would need "at least" a couple of superchargers near Chalkidiki (Kassandra, Sithonia) as well. I'm from Istanbul and recently went there for vacation. Those "fingers" are too big for an electric vehicle. It took 30 km from my hotel to Kalithea in Kassandra. Even if they did have a supercharger each in Kassandra and Sithonia, we would have to get a hotel near the supercharger. So Tesla really needs to invest in Greece to arrive in Turkey where they will meet immense market demand and attention. They have to build the infrastructure throughout Eastern Europe unfortunately. However they don't even have the simplest plan for Eastern Europe nor Turkey yet even for entire 2015. Instead, they seek to make superchargers more dense in central and western europe.
     

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