Yup.I asked about this last week: Wiki - UK and Ireland Supercharger Site News
As far as I'm concerned, it can't come soon enough!
It's been "coming soon" for over a year now
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Wiki UK and Ireland Supercharger Site News
- Thread starter WannabeOwner
- Start date
It's been "coming soon" for over a year now
A bit longer than a year! I’ve had my car 4 years now and it was showing as coming soon way before I even ordered it!
Given Woodall is a Welcome Break site, it sure we should be getting excited about a Tesla expansion unless something fundamental has changed.
At this point I would think that if Tesla is being actively denied access to Welcome Break sites, it’s time for legal intervention, either from Tesla themselves or from the competition watchdog. Welcome Break are a basket case anyway with a long history of zero investment.
Tesla at WB isn’t unheard of… isn’t Newport Pagnell operated by Welcome Break? If you thought your local school has dodgy construction it’s nothing compared to the bridge between north and south sides. Don’t get me started on HGV drivers showing zero awareness of pedestrians crossing from the SC to the main building, or the lack of lighting, or the fact that the so-called secure barriers are used by every local resident and their mates as quick motorway access.
Something has changed, 5 years ago Welcome Break were bought out by Applegreen, who do EV charging in other countries. Most of the recent installations in the last few years utilising any spare grid capacity at Welcome Break services are for their own brand Applegreen chargers e.g., South Mimms. A lot of service stations are due a grid upgrade, so I don’t know if they will allow Tesla to expand when this happens, but I wouldn’t bet on it.
You are more likely to see Tesla expanding into MOTO service areas than WB as MOTO allow both Tesla & Gridserve chargers, although not all sites currently have both.
Historically, Tesla and Welcome Break were very close: the MD of WB drove a Model S, WB were enthusiastic about having Tesla on as many sites as possible and were cooperative in breaking the Ecotricity monopoly.
However, WB were later taken over by Applegreen (and the Tesla-friendly MD moved on), and Applegreen's policy seems to be one of wanting to operate their own charging rather than franchising third parties. So we've seen them resist expansions by Tesla (and Gridserve), and in some cases waiting-to-be-commissioned Tesla equipment has been removed.
I noticed yesterday that there's huge Applegreen-branded charging being installed at WB South Mimms (I forgot to count the stalls, but maybe 20?), no sign of Tesla or Gridserve expansion.
Conversely, Moto were initially unenthusiastic (considering that their franchise with Ecotricity/Gridserve was enough and not wanting more than one charging provider), but then allowed Grantham as an experimental Supercharger site, and in recent times have been enthusiastic with large Supercharger (and expanded Gridserve) installs at as many of their sites as possible.
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
Can we have some more dart farms please. I quite like service stations but it would be nice to have some variety.
Another grievance is putting superchargers at service stations which only serve one side of the motorway. I usually don’t pick what Tesla navigates to and I manually select these to find myself double backing on myself.
Cotswolds is the next desert that needs an oasis. Cheltenham is coming but something more central would have been better. Chargers are coming to stow but doubt they will be Tesla.
Are there any good low friction Tesla alternatives that anyone can recommend for when there isn’t a supercharger nearby?
Another grievance is putting superchargers at service stations which only serve one side of the motorway. I usually don’t pick what Tesla navigates to and I manually select these to find myself double backing on myself.
Cotswolds is the next desert that needs an oasis. Cheltenham is coming but something more central would have been better. Chargers are coming to stow but doubt they will be Tesla.
Are there any good low friction Tesla alternatives that anyone can recommend for when there isn’t a supercharger nearby?
Westmoreland, who own Tebay, Gloucester and Cairn Lodge are doing their own brand chargers.
Gloucester, which is essentially a farm shop and eatery next to the M5, is due to get 12 chargers on each side, but won’t be Tesla.
My wish, but Tesla has shown no signs ... is that they put the chargers off-motorway. Need some facilities, to while away the time, which probably limits choice ...
... but it would mean that all the chargers were available to either-direction traffic, which at the pinch of holiday days would make a difference to the number of people who can charge. Rather than looking across at the other carriageway services and seeing loads of empty stalls. Would also serve other non-motorway traffic in the area.
Tesla + Gridserve installing on/near a motorway junction would likely attract other facilities ... I don't have an urgent need to buy a mobile phone accessory, nor to gamble some money at slot machines, which seems to be what's on offer when I stop at Welcome Break ...
petit_bateau
Active Member
I really do question the economics of running a own-brand small scale charger station network. Irrespective of whether Applegreen, Westmoreland, or anybody.
Not sure you'd call Applegreen small. They have fuel forecourts across Ireland, the UK and the USA. They may not have many charging locations yet but they have the sites to become a huge player very quickly About | Applegreen US Motorway Services
petit_bateau
Active Member
I do think they might be too small, however the secrecy in this area makes it very hard to build good models to test out hypotheses.
A electric-forecourt operator will need (imho):
- sufficient density in each geography to create network effects that affect consumer behaviour;
- sufficient density in each geography to deliver a credible operational backend (e.g. tech response time for charger unit failure);
- sufficent scale to drive down total costs and generate additional margin.
My suspicion is that if it wasn't viable for Applegreen or Westmoreland, etc) to run own-brand dino-juice pumps, then it won't be big enough for own-brand electric outlets. For similar reasons I am expecting considerable consolidation amongst new entrants to the sector; as well as failures of dino-juice network operators trying to make the transition.
(One only has to look at the failure of Shell to make a go of UK retail electricity provision, selling out to Octopus this week, to realise how hard this stuff can be to make a commercially sustainable profit in that meets the IRR / ROI screening thresholds).
️ 12 superchargers found at New proposed service centre and office in Manchester, near Etihad Stadium
Manchester - Ashton New Road
Planning: 136498/AO/2023 | 2no. face lit illuminated letters on framework mounted to existing posts, 2no. face lit 'T' logos mounted to cladded façade, 1no. illuminated totem sign at site entrance, 6no. banner flags and 24no. authorized vehicle signs fixed to vehicle charging posts/wall mounted. | Mercedes Benz Rowsley Street Manchester M11 3RR
I notice that my latest supercharging invoice has the Ashton New Road postal address on it, so I presume that they've started to move in to the offices on the site. Has anyone been past recently and seen what's going on?
If the DNO invests millions upgrading grid connections to an MSA as a strategically important location, then the MSA should not be able to restrict who can access that power for chargers for commercial advantage
Doesn't that also require precuring a supply of dino-juice?
Whereas doesn't that just that require that you decide the capital cost has an acceptable payback, and request the Power folk provide a supply (which might be available now / soon / or sometime-never, pick sites accordingly)
Is that an actual reason? (IDK)
If its just a commercial decision for DNO, same as any other big consumer, then surely its up to the Leccy Customer to decide what they do with it?
yes MSAs were singled out for focus. Other locations - the costs associated with grid connections are now partly being covered by the DNO so I still think exclusivity should not be allowed
petit_bateau
Active Member
White label dino-juice is fairly readily available for indies in most territories worldwide. (not all, but yes in UK and USA and EU)
It is not just about the financials, it is also about the operational/etc execution. That takes a certain scale to achieve cost-effectively, or it ruins profit margin.
White-label charger management is also available; the biggest example that comes to mind is ChargeplaceScotland - which is a brand of the Scottish Govermnent but contracted-out operations (currently to SWARCO, but has had several changes of operator over its life).
However, it looks like Applegreen feel they have the scale to mange and operate their own network, unlike the filling stations (and coffee!) that they contract out. The filling stations are vastly more complex to manage than EV charging, though I'm not sure to what extent that is split between the site owner and the franchised operator: responsibility for the environmental impact of the buried tanks and site remediation after they reach end-of-life for example, on top of the significant safety management issues in day-to-day operation. Coffee on the other hand they could easily make for themselves but franchise out because of the customer loyalty aspects. That applies to a degree on EV charging, but much less so than it used to given all sites now have to accept bank card payments. EV drivers are going to be brand-loyal in pursuit of reliability or lower prices, but it's not clear that either are going to be significantly different at MSA sites (once the independent operator has added a mark-up for the site owner's fees, and given that the sites are large enough that reliability comes down to the equipment selection rather than remote sites of a couple of stalls where immediate response to faults is the main factor).
️Free Supercharging (and others) at Redbridge Park and Ride on 9th Sept for World EV day
Electric vehicle charging and hire offers across Oxfordshire this World EV Day
Electric vehicle owners and hirers across Oxfordshire will be able to take advantage of a range of offers this World EV Day.World EV Day, which takes place on 9 September, is an annual event aiming to highlight the progress in e-mobility and promote the shift to electrified transport.This year...
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