The A9 will have been dual carriageway at that point, when single carriage way the trucks are limited to 40mph, so thats also the A77 from Ayr to Cairnryan and A75 from Gretna to Cairnryan! Cant use AP at all on those roads.Could I just go for a 2-year bump and say [E]AP still can’t read road signs properly yet? A9 in Scotland last week 50mph
Over ride speed sign detection?
I had this yesterday when the car picked up a 20mph sign on a parallel road. I just pressed the accelerator to override the speed. I did see a warning about Autosteer only working up to the posted (wrong) speed, but as far as I could tell AP was still working regardless?teslamotorsclub.com
FSD good luck.
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UK FSD Discussion
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
Tesla UK advertising ADAS driver ADAS Test Operator(m/f/d), UK | Tesla Careers amongst the nearly 100 roles advertised on the website.
Are Tesla likely to have someone driving a test car in Europe - you’d hope so otherwise they really are miles away
Are we likely to have something to drive here soon? Well, it’s sooner than it was yesterday and it will be closer tomorrow
Do any of these websites know? Not really, I doubt Tesla really know timescales as it’s going to depend on how close their closed testing goes, how the US development goes, how regulators look at it etc
Notateslaapp 2 weeks told everyone the US were getting a new release and it didn’t happen. It’s not the first time they’ve done that.
Are we likely to have something to drive here soon? Well, it’s sooner than it was yesterday and it will be closer tomorrow
Do any of these websites know? Not really, I doubt Tesla really know timescales as it’s going to depend on how close their closed testing goes, how the US development goes, how regulators look at it etc
Notateslaapp 2 weeks told everyone the US were getting a new release and it didn’t happen. It’s not the first time they’ve done that.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
The version tracking websites have detected some downloads of FSDbeta version in EU countries - might just be Staff Test cars though (although I would have thought they would not be using 3rd party software and inherently letting-on about such data. But that might be the replacement for a PR department of course ...
Zilla91
Active Member
My reading was they jumped to conclusions. There was a recent release that in the US had FSDb release notes, but in Europe it didn’t. Why.. nobody really knows, but the Europe cars didn’t get FSDb notes so presumably didn’t get FSDb
My cynical (as ever) take is that this is basically a giant nothingburger.
The original take in 2022 wasn’t that revelatory - obviously Tesla are going to have employees and testers testing things, and the 6 month “uptake” doesn’t really add anything either - just more speculation masquerading as a hot scoop.
Until such time as UNECE regulations are relaxed, or Tesla shows intent to mould a European version of FSDb around it, then this is dead in the water, and an incredible waste of money in the short term.
Don’t make the same mistake I did - £5800 down the toilet more than 3 years ago with basically nothing to show for it, and a system of cameras that is due to be obsoleted with the next Model 3 update.
The original take in 2022 wasn’t that revelatory - obviously Tesla are going to have employees and testers testing things, and the 6 month “uptake” doesn’t really add anything either - just more speculation masquerading as a hot scoop.
Until such time as UNECE regulations are relaxed, or Tesla shows intent to mould a European version of FSDb around it, then this is dead in the water, and an incredible waste of money in the short term.
Don’t make the same mistake I did - £5800 down the toilet more than 3 years ago with basically nothing to show for it, and a system of cameras that is due to be obsoleted with the next Model 3 update.
There's only one flaw in your argument. It doesn't generate clicks for those websites so none of them are going to admit it
JupiterMan
Active Member
Implementation of autonomy regulation into UNECE rules is due to be signed off in next few weeks, allowing for Level 2 FSDBeta from as early as January 2024, then later sign off for full autonomy from Jan 2025.
These forthcoming UNECE changes are likely why these FSD job adverts are appearing now.
It's going to matter if Tesla can easily adopt the UNECE rules or not, Tesla might know better but it's not their ball they want to play with, so unless they accomodate the various prescriptive ways of doing things, they're not going to get very far. Examples of where Tesla don't follow the existing UNECE rules very well include Summon and the dead mans handle approach isn't very reliable the Tesla way, and automated lane change where Tesla can make a hash of it but other seem to cope, If the regulations distort what Tesla want to do too much I can see it being a challenge.
Of course, it might be fairly easy, time will tell, but as the rules are only just being signed off, Tesla can't have had them in mind when they developed things.
Of course, it might be fairly easy, time will tell, but as the rules are only just being signed off, Tesla can't have had them in mind when they developed things.
There are specific new regulations from UNECE and laws to support them in the UK to allow self driving, but it's not the same scenario as FSD in the US. The UK/EU regulations will allow self driving on motorways without immediate driver supervision (i.e. Level 4). Initially it's a low speeds (so only in traffic) but the regs are ready to allow it up to full motorway speed.
Highway code is modified, my Insurance policy now refers to it, seems like the legal framework is all in place. The final step is for the Secretary of State to certify when cars have passed an assessment of their capability and add them to the approved list. My searching gave out trying to discover if there is an established test procedure.
It's very likely that multiple manufacturers are preparing their cars for certification, and it would seem unthinkable that Tesla aren't part of it as well.
JupiterMan
Active Member
The new UNECE regs go much further than this and essentially would allow the current FSDBeta on our roads, not just motorways.
The main differences being that the system has to be approved first, and pass many tests before its deployment, rather than the USA/Canada approach where Beta/testing status is accepted in the hands of customers whilst it is developed.
There are also lots of things that will need to be incorporated into the UNECE version of FSDBeta, dealing with how it copes with different situations, be it reacting to speed limits, distances needed for automated lane changes etc.
this link gives lots of in depth info on the proposed new testing proposals:
Makes you wonder if every release and update of the autopilot software will need testing, I imagine it will. The wonderful thing of AI is you've no real ideas what it might break and I know they're sepdning boatloads on automated testing simulations, the question I guess is what do the people who sign off on these things need to see. I worry the driving bit may become the easy bit. and thats not easy. The European approach seems to be start small and expand (like the Merc Level 3, limited speed, motorways only, good weather, in traffic etc) and then once thats proven, increase the speed, relax the traffic, add dual carriageways type of "feel it as you go along". The Tesla way is "lets do everything even if it fails and then work on the failures".
I've not read the UNECE thing, I will, but if thats for L3 upwards, Tesla are still happily working at L2. I wonder if they can even apply some of the L3 stuff in a L2 world or whether the aims are completely different from a legislative point of view ie is a lot of the UNECE stuff about handover timings, safety nets, backup systems, car self awareness of looming hand back, etc of the car, none of which Tesla seem that bothered about and less about taking unprotected turns? I should really read it in case thats a dumb question
Just a speed limit clarification: the A9 in Scotland has a non standard HGV limit on the single carriageway sections i.e. 50mph which is specifically signposted. The normal single carriageway “national speed limit” for HGVs on other roads in Scotland is 40mph … which isn’t signposted, so plenty of drivers assume it’s 50 like in England.
JupiterMan
Active Member
my understanding is that the new regs are level 2 from (hopefully) Jan 2024, so similar to what we see in USA with FSDBeta now (although some subtle differences), and then full autonomous a year later.
Steven Peeters over on youtube has done some good material reading through this stuff and explaining what's coming, his most recent video on this is here, worth a watch if you are interested and don't have time to read the full text.
BIG UNECE UPDATE! FSD beta coming to Europe in 2024?
A few months back I reported on the sad news that we should not expect FSD Beta to be released in Europe before 2025, as the timing was set to put up the pro...
www.youtube.com
Interesting document I hadn't seen, but it's an informal document published last month rather than a part of the actual standards. The regulations are certainly now starting to move along from UNECE.
The current regulation that is approved is 157 around ALKS - https://unece.org/sites/default/files/2021-03/R157e.pdf which is more limited, but still a step well beyond what we have today, particularly with the amendment that came in January to allow the maximum speed to be 130km/h from . UK has adopted it, and we are just waiting to see when some cars get approved.
I think a key topic that people here aren't discussing is what difference will Tesla choose in the licensing levels to meet these requirements. The ability of EAP beyond what they do today isn't defined, will it gain this Level 3 self driving or will we need full FSD. I suspect the later, and the first we will know about Tesla gaining approval will be the price increasing.
