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UK FSD Discussion
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
JupiterMan
Active Member
The new standards will be submitted and voted upon soon, with the earliest effective date (if all goes well) of January 2024. IIRC proposed standards will be available in June, which will give manufacturers some time to begin to get their systems aligned before regulations come into place.
Unfortunately true, however it does appear UNECE are now pushing for an accelarated timeframe to get this through, I don't know what has changed but it does look like they now want to do this.
I think it's more a question of whether Tesla will bother with Level 3 approvals at all. Their current strategy seems to want to skip from Level 2 straight to Level 4.
I would hope that Level 3 could be implemented sooner however, as at least it will give purchasers of the software some added benefit whilst UNECE do their thing, and would also help drive sales and margins in the meantime. As we know current UNECE restrictions are pretty bad for NOA in Europe.
If level 3 changes get implemented I would expect them to happen to EAP as well as FSD, as it will update Navigate on Autopilot functions, which is a feature of both packages.
Are the current UNECE bad, or just Tesla throwing toys out the pram rather than following them? (It’s a genuine question)
We’ve long had the principle that the driver has to confirm a movement that results in a departure from the current lane. It’s seems to be an overarching principle. The car still does the work, it’s just a ‘yes, go ahead’ confirmation usually by the indicator and something that then has to be completed in a time frame. I believe the exit onto a slip road can be done that way, Tesla didn’t, when they were called out they just turned it off rather than implementing it as required. You might think it’s the nanny state, but don’t forget our roads have something like 1/4 of the deaths per head of population compared to the US, but they’re the rules and Tesla don’t appear to maximising what we could have within them.
For all we know, a steering wheel button could be used as confirmation, you need to hold the wheel anyway, so is it too much of a chore at present in a world where wipers don’t work well and some used to report the car departing or phantom braking near exists unwantedly before they disabled it?
We’ve long had the principle that the driver has to confirm a movement that results in a departure from the current lane. It’s seems to be an overarching principle. The car still does the work, it’s just a ‘yes, go ahead’ confirmation usually by the indicator and something that then has to be completed in a time frame. I believe the exit onto a slip road can be done that way, Tesla didn’t, when they were called out they just turned it off rather than implementing it as required. You might think it’s the nanny state, but don’t forget our roads have something like 1/4 of the deaths per head of population compared to the US, but they’re the rules and Tesla don’t appear to maximising what we could have within them.
For all we know, a steering wheel button could be used as confirmation, you need to hold the wheel anyway, so is it too much of a chore at present in a world where wipers don’t work well and some used to report the car departing or phantom braking near exists unwantedly before they disabled it?
JupiterMan
Active Member
think the slip road functionality is now exactly the same as the lane change functionality?
i.e. it pings you with the suggestion (around 100 yards in advance of exit), you engage indicator and apply torque to the steering wheel to show you're paying attention, and it does the rest.
JupiterMan
Active Member
yeah that's a PITA, but to be fair, much of this road type speed awareness NN is only just coming out to FSDBeta in USA now.
At some point (hopefully soon), Europe will move to the new Beta stack, with many features disabled for current UNECE compliance, and things should get better for us then.
In the meantime expect no enhancements.
Chris Zheng
@ChrisZheng001
Look, I can't go into many details, but there are many reliable sources that indicate that FSD Beta is coming to China !
JupiterMan
Active Member
mini roundabouts in general will be interesting to see FSD do, as to my knowledge, these don't exist in USA/Canada, so we have not seen them being tackled by FSD as yet.
However, I think if it is able to a single mini-roundabout in isolation, giving way correctly, entering and exiting in the correct lane, then it should be able to do Swindon or Hemel Hempstead magic roundabouts, as the car will simply see it as a string of separate mini roundabouts it has to navigate and will deal with them sequentially one by one.
it will be fascinating to see them master this and if it as simple as I set out!
JupiterMan
Active Member
"The Magic Roundabout in Swindon, UK was constructed in 1972 and is a ring junction consisting of five mini-roundabouts arranged in a circle around a sixth, central circle. Here is how it works: https://buff.ly/2XiuOPw"
Pink Duck
Active Member
I think Tesla have suggested they'd just avoid niche sites on the assumption that the driver won't mind.
I'm not sure mini roundabouts are too far off a four way stop.
I have used both magic roundabouts many times. Hemel is a mere ring of roundabouts in comparison to Swindon. However, Swindon is not as chaotic as it used to be 20 years ago.
JupiterMan
Active Member
Yeah, uncontrolled four way stops in USA have similarities, esp in regard to sequencing right of way. Mini roundabouts appear to be much more compact however, so will require good recognition of other drivers intentions (angles of car/wheels, indicators), accurate velocity measuring, to know if they are gently edging forward or waiting, and assertiveness to push out when it is the ego's turn.
Multi lane roundabouts with traffic controls on the roundabout will be another new scenario not seen so far - assertive lane changing ability will be essential there.
I wonder if something has been lost in translation along the way, or more likely a little bit of wishful thinking added. We kinda know the FSD stack is going out to cars... the code is now likely to be in our cars now, certainly with 2023.20.. and there's talk about it being in shadow mode.. has that somehow been interpreted as "available to the driver to use in the same way as the US/CA FSDb City Streets FSD pilot is working"?
Agree.
I'd thought that the 'Perception' part of the system was broadly consistent between AP/FSDb, with the difference being the 'Control' bit.
LiamPope
Member
because Musk said that FSD is better than human.Humans can't do that, so why should we expect FSD to be able to?
Tesla Q4 and full year 2021 Financial Results and Q&A Webcast
Start of Earnings Call: https://youtu.be/EMA6myXpfqI?t=382To submit a question: https://app.saytechnologies.com/tesla-2021-q4
www.youtube.com
once you manage to cope with all those "uhm, ahm, mmm, hmmms" you can hear how he said it is like 1000% or 10000% times safer than human
