I did it years ago went from a Flaming Pacific, err Federal Pacific, 100A panel to 200A service. The painful and expensive part is updating the service drop from the pole. The box replacement wasn't awful. I also had a 60A sub-panel run to my detached garage so it really wasn't cheap! If you are luck the service drop to your meter was replaced at some time and will handle 200A.
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Unable to charge using NEMA 14-50 outlet in garage and Mobile Connector
- Thread starter pete_shaw
- Start date
I did it years ago went from a Flaming Pacific, err Federal Pacific, 100A panel to 200A service. The painful and expensive part is updating the service drop from the pole. The box replacement wasn't awful. I also had a 60A sub-panel run to my detached garage so it really wasn't cheap! If you are luck the service drop to your meter was replaced at some time and will handle 200A.
eprosenx
Active Member
Argh, the more I look at this panel the more things wrong I find.
If you look at the set of conductors coming in the top right of the panel. The farthest left one in the front looks more modern than the rest. It has a red and a black conductor. If I am not mistaken, this is a multi-wire branch circuit (shared neutral) with both hot conductors landing on a single tandem breaker which only provides one phase leg to both circuits. So basically you could overload that neutral wire and not have the breakers trip.
I also have serious questions about all the aluminum wires landing on that neutral/ground bus. It looks like a bunch are shoved into a single termination screw?
This needs a serious professional to look at and provide solid advice. Aluminum wiring is nothing to mess with (but properly remediated it may be fine).
Be careful!
P.S. I would love to see a picture of your outside meter and drop line, etc... fwiw, generally you are only responsible up to the meter / weatherhead. Beyond that the power company has responsibility to upgrade if you decide to go to 200a service.
If you look at the set of conductors coming in the top right of the panel. The farthest left one in the front looks more modern than the rest. It has a red and a black conductor. If I am not mistaken, this is a multi-wire branch circuit (shared neutral) with both hot conductors landing on a single tandem breaker which only provides one phase leg to both circuits. So basically you could overload that neutral wire and not have the breakers trip.
I also have serious questions about all the aluminum wires landing on that neutral/ground bus. It looks like a bunch are shoved into a single termination screw?
This needs a serious professional to look at and provide solid advice. Aluminum wiring is nothing to mess with (but properly remediated it may be fine).
Be careful!
P.S. I would love to see a picture of your outside meter and drop line, etc... fwiw, generally you are only responsible up to the meter / weatherhead. Beyond that the power company has responsibility to upgrade if you decide to go to 200a service.
eprosenx
Active Member
Some more notes:
Starting with the double red handle breaker. The conductors are a lot larger than I would expect for such small amperage circuits. This is fine, but odd. Also, that is perhaps being used as a shared neutral circuit so that is odd. Normally this could overload the neutral, but is suspect that wire is so overkill capacity wise that this may not be an issue? I wonder how the rest of the circuit is wired...
The bottom left circle you can see a couple disconnected high amp cables. I take it the house used to have an electric dryer or water heater that is no longer? (which freed up a spot for the Tesla receptacle)
Then to the right of that I am unsure what the big bare aluminum wire is that is just hanging out disconnected?
And there is some odd terminal lug hanging out at the bottom of the panel. Not an issue, but I am just curious what it is.
On the bottom right hand breaker is where I am concerned about the shared. Neutral wire across two circuits that are not on different phase legs. This is not hard to correct, but it was just done totally wrong.
Then at the upper right is where I am concerned that too many wires are being shoved under one screw terminal. There are specifications / limits on this on a per panel basis usually.
It would be nice to have more clear pictures of the breakers themselves. While likely not a practical issue, I wonder if all those various breakers are rated for use in that panel model. I would like to see any other stickers in the panel too (the door especially) to see what other details it has. I am wondering what awg the wire is coming in to feed then panel. Likely it is 100a rated.
I'm with F14Scott, but I would be more negative on the review - not even faint praise. I would post a totally factual review and would state at the end that I could not recommend their services.
Letting this guy get away with this kind of work does nobody any favors - including the "electrician" and just contributes to their arrogance. When the construction business is strong (like right now) these kind of guys get away with murder.
I think that wire runs through the hole outside the conduit knockout and is the ground/earth connection.
@eprosenx Wow! Simply wow! I feel unqualified to even answer the questions you asked (I was even afraid to open the panel until so called qualified electrician showed up) and concerns you indicated with current wiring. I am hoping to refer to this when I upgrade the panel and essentially re-do everything. The next electrician I hire (whenever that happens) will be only based on personal recommendation. I am not sure what anyone can do about Aluminium wiring that is throughout this old house but for now if this is not an urgent issue, I will put this in the back burner. I am just so glad that I can now enjoy the car without worrying about running to the supercharger every so often.
eprosenx
Active Member
Ah! I think you are right @mongo I totally missed that it is going through the back of the box there. I thought it was just cut off and hanging. So yeah, that likely is the ground wire. I have never seen an aluminum ground wire before. I am pretty positive that is not allowed today.
So there are ways to mitigate much of the risk of aluminum wiring by using special connectors to bond the aluminum wires to copper pigtails and to connect those to your switches and receptacles. I am not sure what the procedure might be at the electrical panel. This is outside of my scope of knowledge. If I were you, I absolutely would be doing research on the aluminum wiring situation to understand what the risks may or may not be.
The one outright concerning thing I see is the shared neutral circuits that are both landing on a single breaker module but with two separate over current protective devices. This has likely been this way for a long time but unless I am missing something, it is a legit hazard. Fixing this would be easy.
I am curious how long you have owned the house? Did a home inspector not call this out? I think a lot of insurance companies don’t want to cover homes with aluminum wiring also...
@davewill why the disagree?
i believe the OP said he has a SR or SR+ model 3 so a ~50 kWh battery pack. 240v 40 amp would charge in around 5 hours 0-100% or 10 hours 0-100% at 20 amps 240v
house has a 100 amp panel with a questionable install and total load. does he really need to tax the panel for 40% of available energy to charge his car or can he scale back and charge at 20 amps overnight unless needed? reduced heat and panel load but still a full charge in the AM
Correct. I just got my JuiceBox Pro 40 Amp EVSE which is capable of speeds upto 40 Amp but my Model 3 mid-range only charges at Max 32 Amps.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
DIY baby!!
If you go that route I would consider just adding a ~100A or 200A sub panel off your meter base. More flexibility and it would be cheaper.
davewill
Active Member
I am having the same problem In Georgia.
The electrician is here and I read him the posts about grounding and he pulled the outlet and I have pics. He says it’s grounded to neutral. My regular old outlet works and charges and this adapter is from Tesla I have tried 2 of them. Same issue goes green twice then red. Did u guys ever diagnose the problem?
Any advice? I don’t live near charging stations so I’m still driving my old car every other day.
The electrician is here and I read him the posts about grounding and he pulled the outlet and I have pics. He says it’s grounded to neutral. My regular old outlet works and charges and this adapter is from Tesla I have tried 2 of them. Same issue goes green twice then red. Did u guys ever diagnose the problem?
Any advice? I don’t live near charging stations so I’m still driving my old car every other day.
davewill
Active Member
It's not supposed to "grounded to neutral" it's supposed to have a separate ground wire all the way back to the main panel. Can you post your pictures so we can see what you're talking about?
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
The problem in for this OP was that the electrician did not connect the ground in the panel to the neutral. As @davewill says, the ground for the outlet must be bonded to neutral in the main panel, not at the outlet. It wasn't clear where the electrician was saying it was connected.
For your question, it's unclear what your issue is, and as indicated above, pictures would be helpful.
1) Pictures
2) Any messages indicated in the vehicle?
3) Picture of the light sequence on the UMC. (I assume we're talking about a UMC.)
Good luck. In any case this should be a pretty simple issue to solve unless your house has a pre-existing electrical issue.
Yes, it was a problem with his work and he fixed it in the end. I agree about feeling helpless once you've paid (cash or otherwise). In this case payment wasn't disputed but it was a task to get him to come and fix it because I never was able to test his work before the payment. I tried to get ready for my new car by taking care of this installation beforehand. With the help of fellow forum members, I was able to confidently make the case to him over the phone that it was an issue with his work.
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