UP vs MPP Coilover

[dfwatt]

1000% agree on the off the shelf kit. The Redwood Ohlins kit is far better tbh and great on the street. I don't think they've produced a kit for the track as yet that can compete with the MPP Sports valving though. Don't fret though, the Ohlins off the shelf vs MPP Sports test is coming. We've already done our independent testing with customer cars, on and off the track, and have the results but we're about to get another set in and I'm just gonna say F it and put them on one of our cars so we can do an unbiased comparison. We will have others drive them as well. Once the test is done, prior to publishing the results, we'll see the kits that we tested on. hehe.

The office owns 3 model 3's so we'll get it done and post it on YouTube so people can see. We might even have our fastest driver run them at a Tesla Corsa event just to get his overall thoughts on it. We're currently running MPP Sports and Super Sport springs and I have not seen a UP or Ohlins coilover take the fast line like he can with the MPP's. #kerbingftw!!!!

You realize that the test is meaningless if the driver is not completely blinded and for that matter the folks instructing the driver. No one involved in the testing protocol can know which kit is on the car. That takes some doing to provide that level of insulation but it's the only test worth doing and if you don't follow this kind of protocol the data you collect is meaningless.

 

[The Other Dan]

You realize that the test is meaningless if the driver is not completely blinded and for that matter the folks instructing the driver. No one involved in the testing protocol can know which kit is on the car. That takes some doing to provide that level of insulation but it's the only test worth doing and if you don't follow this kind of protocol the data you collect is meaningless.

I'll disagree with that to a point. Regardless of if it's a blind test or not, it's still subjective. What feels perfect to me, may not feel perfect to you.

 

[dfwatt]

I'll disagree with that to a point. Regardless of if it's a blind test or not, it's still subjective. What feels perfect to me, may not feel perfect to you.

Oh for sure the whole business of ride is massively subjective. Some people like maximum isolation and something akin to floatiness other people like firm and highly controlled. The other thing is that they could probably throw in some objective measures like measurement of Bounce pitch roll noise and vibration Etc all of this of course is why there's never been an objective test including by car magazines that have big bucks. It's really challenging to design and implement and like you say the criteria have to be more quantifiable than simply a rating scale on "how much you like the ride." And of course you've got to eliminate the tire and sidewall so you've got to have exactly the same wheels and tires at exactly the same pressures. And for that matter even the same degree of wear on the tires because that's another variable in ride. Even bushing wear is a big variable so you've got to have cars with similar miles and for that matter similar history. The car that's been tracked or driven over extremely rough roads after a couple of years is going to ride more poorly, and of course this takes a lot of track cars out of the equation because they don't have stock bushings anymore. For sure the best way to do all this is simply have your test mules be virtually new cars. Of course this all adds to the expense and hassle.

 

[MountainPass]

Another factor for a lot of people is the OEM suspension they are comparing to. The OE suspension has a lot of variability, with many reports of rear dampers being terribly under damped. So one customer may feel a massive difference in ride control, because the OE dampers on that specific car were quite bad, whereas another might notice less of a difference if their dampers were on the better end of the spectrum!

If only it were horsepower and we could settle this all with a simple drag race...

 

[dfwatt]

Another factor for a lot of people is the OEM suspension they are comparing to. The OE suspension has a lot of variability, with many reports of rear dampers being terribly under damped. So one customer may feel a massive difference in ride control, because the OE dampers on that specific car were quite bad, whereas another might notice less of a difference if their dampers were on the better end of the spectrum!

If only it were horsepower and we could settle this all with a simple drag race...

Speaking of all this we just picked up a brand new 2023 long range for my son, and I have to say I'm very impressed with how well it rides. What's your understanding of what they've done to make the car ride better?

 

[jgrgnt]

Another factor for a lot of people is the OEM suspension they are comparing to. The OE suspension has a lot of variability, with many reports of rear dampers being terribly under damped. So one customer may feel a massive difference in ride control, because the OE dampers on that specific car were quite bad, whereas another might notice less of a difference if their dampers were on the better end of the spectrum!

If only it were horsepower and we could settle this all with a simple drag race...

+1

I recently drove a 2018 M3P loaner, built just a few months after my own 2018 M3P, and the suspension was noticeably more controlled than I could remember on my car. Mine was one of the first off the line, so Tesla either made tweaks in that short time period, or I had bad dampers, or the variability is just that pronounced. The difference was so jarring that I felt compelled to check whether the suspension had been upgraded to aftermarket (it wasn't).

 

[dfwatt]

+1

I recently drove a 2018 M3P loaner, built just a few months after my own 2018 M3P, and the suspension was noticeably more controlled than I could remember on my car. Mine was one of the first off the line, so Tesla either made tweaks in that short time period, or I had bad dampers, or the variability is just that pronounced. The difference was so jarring that I felt compelled to check whether the suspension had been upgraded to aftermarket (it wasn't).

Did you check tire pressures? That can make a huge difference. People who drive around with tires pumped up to 4647 pounds are stunned by the improvement in the ride by dropping it down to 38 PSI.

 

[jgrgnt]

Did you check tire pressures? That can make a huge difference. People who drive around with tires pumped up to 4647 pounds are stunned by the improvement in the ride by dropping it down to 38 PSI.

I did, and tire pressures were as expected. The difference was in the damping and body control.

 

[dfwatt]

I did, and tire pressures were as expected. The difference was in the damping and body control.

These are both 2018 right? Was there a big mileage difference between yours and the loner? The stock shocks wear quickly. With our 2 MPP kits, even the softer Comfort adjustable kit on my wife's car set to the default 12/10, I can barely depress the fender at all. If you can get any kind of oscillation going in the suspension or it's fairly easy to compress it, time to replace your shocks. And if one or two corners are much easier to bounce than the others obviously those shocks are gone probably. We're of course are very partial to either of the MPP kits. You'd love either one.

 

[Dave EV]

+1

I recently drove a 2018 M3P loaner, built just a few months after my own 2018 M3P, and the suspension was noticeably more controlled than I could remember on my car. Mine was one of the first off the line, so Tesla either made tweaks in that short time period, or I had bad dampers, or the variability is just that pronounced. The difference was so jarring that I felt compelled to check whether the suspension had been upgraded to aftermarket (it wasn't).

The 2017 and very early 2018 Model 3s had very hard suspension. I don't recall what the cutoff date was and whether or not this also affected Performance Model 3s, though. I thought it only affected LW RWD vehicles since the M3P came out later after the change, IIRC.

But it wouldn't surprise me if they also made a running change on the M3P as well in 2018.

 

[jgrgnt]

These are both 2018 right? Was there a big mileage difference between yours and the loner? The stock shocks wear quickly. With our 2 MPP kits, even the softer Comfort adjustable kit on my wife's car set to the default 12/10, I can barely depress the fender at all. If you can get any kind of oscillation going in the suspension or it's fairly easy to compress it, time to replace your shocks. And if one or two corners are much easier to bounce than the others obviously those shocks are gone probably. We're of course are very partial to either of the MPP kits. You'd love either one.

My 2018, I felt, was under damped from delivery. The loaner with 30k miles felt more buttoned down than my car did at 50 miles. I recall my test drive of an M3P in 2018 felt dynamically identical to the car I took delivery of a few weeks later, so I never suspected defective shocks.

I did finally upgrade to the MPP sport coilovers in 2020. 14C/10R front and back was the perfect daily setup for me. I’ve since sold the Model 3 for a Model Y Performance, and am in the process of doing the same upgrade all over again, except with the MPP comfort coilovers (since the sports aren’t available for the Y). Damping and body control is less of an issue with my Y. The problem is more about ride quality.

On the main topic, I’ve been super pleased with MPP’s products. Plus, Jesse always provides exceptional customer support.

 

[bradhs]

My 2018 Performance VIN is 730XX and the suspension is very good. I recently installed these which greatly improved things: Solid Front Lower Control Arm Bearings for Tesla Model 3 | MPP (mountainpassperformance.com). But I am getting a light creaking sound which seems to be coming from the top part of the suspension or maybe from these bearings--I can't tell.

 

[dfwatt]

My 2018 Performance VIN is 730XX and the suspension is very good. I recently installed these which greatly improved things: Solid Front Lower Control Arm Bearings for Tesla Model 3 | MPP (mountainpassperformance.com). But I am getting a light creaking sound which seems to be coming from the top part of the suspension or maybe from these bearings--I can't tell.

Not likely to be those if those are properly installed. We have two sets of these on two model 3Ps and they are completely silent. Creaking sound in all probability is the upper control arm ball joint. We've had all of ours replaced and they started to squeak at about 3-4 years in. This is a known vulnerability with Tesla's original 2018 part having poor seals around the ball joint and subsequent water entry into the ball joint which of course resulted in Rust and Noise. You can confirm that it is the upper ball joint by injecting the ball joint at the seal with a hypodermic needle and some grease. If that's the source, the grease will quiet it down temporarily. But the long-term solution is to get the new and improved part. If you're interested in gaining useful control over front camber Mountain Pass makes an excellent replacement control arm, and there is also a an option for one from Unplugged Performance which gives you caster control also.

 

[bradhs]

Not likely to be those if those are properly installed. We have two sets of these on two model 3Ps and they are completely silent. Creaking sound in all probability is the upper control arm ball joint. We've had all of ours replaced and they started to squeak at about 3-4 years in. This is a known vulnerability with Tesla's original 2018 part having poor seals around the ball joint and subsequent water entry into the ball joint which of course resulted in Rust and Noise. You can confirm that it is the upper ball joint by injecting the ball joint at the seal with a hypodermic needle and some grease. If that's the source, the grease will quiet it down temporarily. But the long-term solution is to get the new and improved part. If you're interested in gaining useful control over front camber Mountain Pass makes an excellent replacement control arm, and there is also a an option for one from Unplugged Performance which gives you caster control also.

Thanks for the info! Do you know which part I need to order? Is it this one? Camber Adjustable Front Upper Control Arms for Tesla Model 3 & Y (mountainpassperformance.com)

 

[dfwatt]

Thanks for the info! Do you know which part I need to order? Is it this one? Camber Adjustable Front Upper Control Arms for Tesla Model 3 & Y (mountainpassperformance.com)

Yes that's it!