[Update: It happened] Track Mode not happening for P3d-

[MXWing]

Yea, I agree. TM has always been ready because, in my opinion, it needs no changes from + to -. They could have released it any time but it looks like it was really really low on the priority list.

A good Track Mode system should not rely on relatively small hardware differences when environmental/road/parts conditions can introduce much larger variables into the equation which the system has to account for anyway. A set of warnout brake pads on glazed rotors in 120 degrees temperature on a P+ will brake fade much faster than new pads on new rotors in 60 degree temperature on a P- (all stock). I've always argued and continue to, that Track Mode can handle and adjust accordingly to these kind of delta characteristics as well as hardware differences such as the ones between P+ and P- and probably even more.

Why doesn't Tesla just enable the checkbox to download it to 3P-?

A few months back @MP3Mike and I were discussing the marvel that Tesla STILL keeps track of Autopilot features on AP2 hardware. Not enhanced autopilot mind you, but Autopilot. This only affected deliveries over 2.5 months at best. Late Oct through Dec 2016.

 

[Glamisduner]

The flip side is that one person probably would either automatically get FUSC enabled or could have asked for FUSC. Net gain no matter what you chose. Though there are fools or people who make sentimental decisions (like myself) that has elected to keep FUSC in lieu of $5,000.



We saw all the demo videos with track mode was 3P+. Also, there was ZERO chance something was going to go to 3P- but NOT 3P+. Absence of proof does not challenge the fact of existence. In this case, if track mode came out, it was assured on 3P+. This alone made the decision tree 100% certain.



Could I guarantee track mode was NOT coming to 3P-? NOPE. Only thing I could guarantee was track mode was coming to 3P+. That was the info needed to make the decision.

Poor planner isn't the right terminology. "Risk adverse" is the term. Buying ANY insurance basically over mandated minimums could be considered poor planning through that logic.

Predictions get less accurate the farther you go into the future. No one expected Elon could be bullied by Model 3 owners. He didn't bow down to S or X owners? Something changed. There is a new baseline.



What if it was a laptop you wanted 32GB DDR4-3200MHZ of ram on yet it comes with 16GB DDR4-2133 as two 8GB sodimm modules? You are not building that laptop from scratch. You are also not able to buy it with any lower configuration. That 16GB is wasted in your eyes.

Same crap with spoilers, pedals, 20 inch heavy wheels, rims, underlined badges etc.

I ordered mine before there was a track mode only for P3D+ announce. I guess I could have canceled or reconfigured though.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Yea, I agree. TM has always been ready because, in my opinion, it needs no changes from + to -. They could have released it any time but it looks like it was really really low on the priority list.

A good Track Mode system should not rely on relatively small hardware differences when environmental/road/parts conditions can introduce much larger variables into the equation which the system has to account for anyway. A set of warnout brake pads on glazed rotors in 120 degrees temperature on a P+ will brake fade much faster than new pads on new rotors in 60 degree temperature on a P- (all stock). I've always argued and continue to, that Track Mode can handle and adjust accordingly to these kind of delta characteristics as well as hardware differences such as the ones between P+ and P- and probably even more.

software-wise the only difference between my car and a + is Track Mode. It's the same right down to the Dual Motor logo with red underline on my T screen.

It really is that simple. For those of you with PUP, how did Tesla know what you were running for wheels and tires when they pushed you the update?

What if you were on *gasp* 19's with snows on them?!?!?!?

I bet the button still showed up, right?

Weird.

 

[Perry]

Based solely on watching how Tesla seems to process a lot of their big releases in waves, and then pause while lots and lots of cars get brought up to the latest version, it wouldn't surprise me if they have features that depend on software components, or firmware in the car being updated to specific versions before the next version comes out.

When track mode was released I think it was in a specific version of the car software that only went to a subset of model 3. Then those same cars were updated to later versions that were the same as other model 3s but their track mode option stayed available. It's possible that the software is identical and some cars just have a flag set to enable the option. It's also possible that there were some firmware updates to parts of the car that were only made as part of that special versions installer/update script, and the track mode UI option is just based on if you have the firmware version required in some deep part of the traction control system or whatever.

Effectively they have two ways of changing our cars, one being the version of the software that it's running, and the second being the changes they make during the update process itself. I think Tesla is likely to make sure that every piece of software and firmware controlled piece of tech in the car is capable of being updated to a new version OTA. There are probably dozens of little software driven components in every Tesla, so the path of least resistance for something like Track Mode where it touches a small subset of the total cars might include using the update process to change some of the lower level components of the full tech suite rather than the software that runs the more user facing aspects of the car.

This would mean that the only way to enable track mode on a car is through an update that includes the track mode "installer". They would probably want to make sure that they had all those firmware components rebuilt/updated to match the now current software, and make sure that everyone who is getting that version is caught up to one (or at least the smallest possible number) known good path for the upgrade because you don't want to end up with an incompatible state or a failed upgrade where half the car accepts the new version but whatever bit of micro-controller is running the torque vectoring or braking rejects an older version, or doesn't recognize the "turn on/off track mode" command.

That would explain the idea that they want to wait for people to get updated to a specific point, so that they don't have to test their special upgrade process on dozens or hundreds of different car software configurations.

That makes a lot of sense. I would not doubt this to be true knowing from my own line of work and experience how things work. Very much like this.

 

[MXWing]

It really is that simple. For those of you with PUP, how did Tesla know what you were running for wheels and tires when they pushed you the update?

They don’t.

They know what they delivered the car with.

Beyond that, none of their business. Until you want to make a warranty or liability claim.

You die or kill someone using economy brakes and tires, you might find a sympathetic jury. It came with the car after all.

You modify your car beyond what was delivered - it’s on you.

Stare decsis.

 

[Perry]

Not really. If you wanted the 5k refund, you had to settle for the same deal that P3D with PUP got on October 26th 2018. People who bought on that date did not have the option to get FUSC. Instead Tesla used the savings from not offering FUSC to give people a straight up 5K discount. That was the deal. You could get the same discount but could not double dip.

Just as an example, I know of one person who didn't have FUSC who go the 5K discount anyway. Giving up FUSC was not a requirement for the 5K discount. If you didn't have FUSC, you could still get the 5K rebate. The requirement was that you can't double dip.

Everyone automatically got FUSC if they bought before the cars where discounted 5K even if you already had FUSC but you could only get it once. So everyone who overpaid by 5K was eligible to trade in that FUSC even though you may have gotten the refund back before FUSC was actually enabled so it may have seemed that you didn't get it.

 

[Perry]

Because it turns off if you unplug the wheel speed sensor. There must be a mode in the software to detect that and turn it off. I think you're making this way more complicated than it really is. It would be way easier than adding fart mode.

Oh my god you nailed it. It would be so much easier than adding fart mode no doubt.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

They don’t.

They know what they delivered the car with.

Beyond that, none of their business. Until you want to make a warranty or liability claim.

You die or kill someone using economy brakes and tires, you might find a sympathetic jury. It came with the car after all.

You modify your car beyond what was delivered - it’s on you.

Stare decsis.

they've already put their disclaimer on your initial activation of Track Mode, cool story.

 

[whatthe2]

Hmm.. If this is true, it's looking like I was probably right. It took no extra development to add it in, other than flipping a switch on a targeted VIN range. And yes I maintain that it will work without hardware modifications.

Hoping you are correct. And after ModelN confirmed he specified he had a Stealth to the Rep, I'm feeling confident. Although still not 100% convinced that reply meant to those with Stealth who haven't dowloaded it vs. those with PUP who haven't downloaded it. I'll feel better once someone with Stealth gets it.

 

[MXWing]

they've already put their disclaimer on your initial activation of Track Mode, cool story.

Facts don’t matter in a civil jury trial.

Tesla is found 50 percent responsible, they are done.

Nonwithstanding nullification laws allow juries them interpret Tesla’s EULA however they see fit.

I can assure you that their legal team is not a fan of issuing TM to 3P-.

That’s why cases get settled before it becomes a cool story.

 

[caskater47]

Why don't we all contact customer service with the same question and see what response we get? Maybe it'll elevate the priority if suddenly a bunch of folks are inquiring at the same time. Also, if you have Twitter ask Elon about a status update. Anyone have Fred Lamberts email? Maybe he can get an answer for us.

 

[whatthe2]

Why don't we all contact customer service with the same question and see what response we get? Maybe it'll elevate the priority if suddenly a bunch of folks are inquiring at the same time. Also, if you have Twitter ask Elon about a status update. Anyone have Fred Lamberts email? Maybe he can get an answer for us.

Good idea. Just tried to access my account to send a request and got the following. Seems they have locked us Stealther’s out.

Ok, short lived. Worked now. Question sent.

 

[caskater47]

View attachment 376418
Good idea. Just tried to access my account to send a request and got the following. Seems they have locked us Stealther’s out.

Ok, short lived. Worked now. Question sent.

I just tried and was successful

 

[whatthe2]

I just tried and was successful

Yeah, must've been a temporary glitch. All good now.

 

[Perry]

We saw all the demo videos with track mode was 3P+. Also, there was ZERO chance something was going to go to 3P- but NOT 3P+.

Of course everything related to public media relations will have their highest end model shown. That tells me nothing.

What if it was a laptop you wanted 32GB DDR4-3200MHZ of ram on yet it comes with 16GB DDR4-2133 as two 8GB sodimm modules? You are not building that laptop from scratch. You are also not able to buy it with any lower configuration. That 16GB is wasted in your eyes.

Wow.. you gave me more info here to make a good choice then Tesla ever game me.

Look let me be honest with you. Although it is quite fun to argue the point that we did not have enough info to make a proper decision and still contend that we did not, there is no point for me to continue to defend this position since I probably would still not have bought the P+ even if I had known the P- did not come with Track Mode. Why? Because just Track Mode for 5K is too much and that would have been the only reason for me to buy the + package. Had the 5K price drop not happened, what I would have ended up doing is buy the MPP module that disables the nannies which will probably end up costing $500 (my guess).

What changed everything was the 5K price drop a few days after purchase which made a lot of people feel like they were cheeted. The 5K included: the parts and the software (Track Mode, top speed of 155). With the 5K refund, Elon made the P- whole on the parts but not on the software. I think it still makes sense for them to release that software to P-, since it costs them nothing, if for no other reason but to keep the software the same going forward for all P cars and treat them as equals. So I consider that still owed to P- owners. When I say owed I don't mean contractually owed but owed if you want to do right by the customers and make them feel good about their purchase.

 

[Perry]

Why don't we all contact customer service with the same question and see what response we get? Maybe it'll elevate the priority if suddenly a bunch of folks are inquiring at the same time. Also, if you have Twitter ask Elon about a status update. Anyone have Fred Lamberts email? Maybe he can get an answer for us.

I did so yesterday and encourage everyone else to do so too.

 

[silentcorp]

I did so yesterday and encourage everyone else to do so too.

I just did myself as well!

 

[MXWing]

If I get a response, I will post it.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

If I get a response, I will post it.



View attachment 376432

Premium Upgrade Package is the interior. We ALL have that. You meant Performance Upgrade Package. If it was me on the other end, I'd wonder what this guy without a clue is even emailing in about.


Facts, not feelings, am I right?

 

[MXWing]

Of course everything related to public media relations will have their highest end model shown. That tells me nothing.

Were they going to give the media outlets the Aero wheel version to beat it up to test track mode? Not a chance, and you know that. Even if you don't LIKE the Tesla supplied parts, it doesn't change the fact that they are suited for the track than the 35K Model 3 brakes and wheels.

Wow.. you gave me more info here to make a good choice then Tesla ever game me.

Look let me be honest with you. Although it is quite fun to argue the point that we did not have enough info to make a proper decision and still contend that we did not, there is no point for me to continue to defend this position since I probably would still not have bought the P+ even if I knew the P- did not come with Track Mode. Why? Because just Track Mode for 5K is too much and that would have been the only reason for me to buy the + package. Had the 5K price drop not happened, what I would have ended up doing is buy the MPP module that disables the nannies which will probably end up costing $500 (my guess).

What changed everything was the 5K price drop a few days after purchase which made a lot of people feel like they were cheeted. The 5K included: the parts and the software (Track Mode, top speed of 155). With the 5K refund, Elon made the P- whole on the parts but not on the software which costs them nothing. I think it still makes sense for them to release that software to P- if for nothing else but to keep the software the same going forward for all P cars. So that is still owed to P- owners. When I say owed I don't mean contractually owed but owed if you want to do right by the customers.

I am sure you or I would have communicated expectations better. That we can agree on for sure.

1.) No track mode is going to piss 3P- off.
2.) 5K price drop on top.

It was a bit much which is why Elon got driven off of Twitter. I've asked a few times now actually. Why doesn't Tesla enable it if its just a check mark? I've speculated on legal reasons why which is factually correct but people are not liking that explanation.

I too tweeted Elon my annoyance.

Premium Upgrade Package is the interior. We ALL have that. You meant Performance Upgrade Package. If it was me on the other end, I'd wonder what this guy without a clue is even emailing in about.


Facts, not feelings, am I right?

I bet I get a less ambiguous answer than you did. Tell me more again about SEO and my old postings? You are reaching in your attempts to clown. But my feelings are a bit hurt, so why don't I go console myself with some TRACK MODE driving?

Happy to try and achieve clarity for others and if you benefit, so be it.