[Update: It happened] Track Mode not happening for P3d-

[Glamisduner]

Getting back on “track” as the boomer vs Xennial discussion is very off topic.

Here is the issue I see with the email. It does not acknowledge that there are two variations of the performance Model 3.

My best guess and reasoning is that the customer service rep assumes OP owns a 3P+ and it’s a matter of time before the firmware arrives to the 3P+ that enables track.

8 page discussion not needed. Until a 3P- gets track mode either in production or beta or if Tesla/Elon addresss the 3P- specifically, I would assume status quo.

@ModelNforNerd - I do not think your rep read your email comprehensively and appreciating the nuances. If she or he did, the reply SHOULD have taken the care to point out that yes ALL means 3P+ and 3P-.

3P- doesn’t exist anymore so I would not assume it is treated as a performance car.

We assume too much prior knowledge, training and enthusiasm from front line Tesla employees.

So when people ask if I have a performance 3 I should tell them no? I purchased performance but got an AWD plus? Here we go again!

 

[ModelNforNerd]

So it seemed very easy for Elon to go, here's $5K for everyone. Go away.

For about the 20th time....the $5K was in exchange for giving up FUSC. Track Mode was NEVER explicitly or implicitly a part of that transaction.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I just want a stability control and traction control off button! That would literally cost them nothing to develop.

 

[MP3Mike]

I just want a stability control and traction control off button! That would literally cost them nothing to develop.

That is literally false.

 

[Daniel in SD]

That is literally false.

Explain?
Obviously they'd have to add the button to the UI but I'm sure the mode already exists. Mountain Pass Performance is able to disable stability control by just intercepting the CAN bus signals.

 

[lotusland]

I suspect they are talking about PUP. Not all owners are in a hurry to get the latest download so some probably still don't have it. I would love to be proven wrong though!

I was confused as to who you were talking about, but it all makes sense after I checked my block list.

I have him on ignore as well but he clogs up nearly every thread. I've moved largely to Reddit as a result. Mods here would do everyone a favor by banning him.

 

[MXWing]

So when people ask if I have a performance 3 I should tell them no? I purchased performance but got an AWD plus? Here we go again!

Buddy, I don't disagree is NOT whacked. 5K off surely makes the 3P- the best bang for buck deal.

I'd trade to a 3P- right now without FUSC if I could pocket a few grand in the process.

For about the 20th time....the $5K was in exchange for giving up FUSC. Track Mode was NEVER explicitly or implicitly a part of that transaction.

The $5K -exchange- was only initially offered to 3P+ ONLY.

Overnight, $5K was then LATER extended to 3P-.

While the issues do not appear to be related... it's the way that "make up calls" are done in sports. Calling a penalty on team B despite them doing nothing wrong other than benefiting from a bad call on Team A.

 

[maketm]

Based solely on watching how Tesla seems to process a lot of their big releases in waves, and then pause while lots and lots of cars get brought up to the latest version, it wouldn't surprise me if they have features that depend on software components, or firmware in the car being updated to specific versions before the next version comes out.

When track mode was released I think it was in a specific version of the car software that only went to a subset of model 3. Then those same cars were updated to later versions that were the same as other model 3s but their track mode option stayed available. It's possible that the software is identical and some cars just have a flag set to enable the option. It's also possible that there were some firmware updates to parts of the car that were only made as part of that special versions installer/update script, and the track mode UI option is just based on if you have the firmware version required in some deep part of the traction control system or whatever.

Effectively they have two ways of changing our cars, one being the version of the software that it's running, and the second being the changes they make during the update process itself. I think Tesla is likely to make sure that every piece of software and firmware controlled piece of tech in the car is capable of being updated to a new version OTA. There are probably dozens of little software driven components in every Tesla, so the path of least resistance for something like Track Mode where it touches a small subset of the total cars might include using the update process to change some of the lower level components of the full tech suite rather than the software that runs the more user facing aspects of the car.

This would mean that the only way to enable track mode on a car is through an update that includes the track mode "installer". They would probably want to make sure that they had all those firmware components rebuilt/updated to match the now current software, and make sure that everyone who is getting that version is caught up to one (or at least the smallest possible number) known good path for the upgrade because you don't want to end up with an incompatible state or a failed upgrade where half the car accepts the new version but whatever bit of micro-controller is running the torque vectoring or braking rejects an older version, or doesn't recognize the "turn on/off track mode" command.

That would explain the idea that they want to wait for people to get updated to a specific point, so that they don't have to test their special upgrade process on dozens or hundreds of different car software configurations.

 

[happyzod]

For about the 20th time....the $5K was in exchange for giving up FUSC. Track Mode was NEVER explicitly or implicitly a part of that transaction.

Not really. If you wanted the 5k refund, you had to settle for the same deal that P3D with PUP got on October 26th 2018. People who bought on that date did not have the option to get FUSC. Instead Tesla used the savings from not offering FUSC to give people a straight up 5K discount. That was the deal. You could get the same discount but could not double dip.

Just as an example, I know of one person who didn't have FUSC who go the 5K discount anyway. Giving up FUSC was not a requirement for the 5K discount. If you didn't have FUSC, you could still get the 5K rebate. The requirement was that you can't double dip.

 

[MP3Mike]

Mountain Pass Performance is able to disable stability control by just intercepting the CAN bus signals.

Anything requiring changes to the software and especially the UI does not "cost them nothing". And in some countries might even require getting the new software version re-homologated. (I don't think that is true in the US.)

Why do you think the mode already exists?

Mountain Pass Performance is able to disable stability control by just intercepting the CAN bus signals.

I'm not sure but I thought they said that they weren't disabling it, but they were modifying how it operated.

And how much time and money have they put in to development on that and they still don't have a product ready to sell? And Tesla could break it with the next software update. (Just like a recent software update broke the aftermarket Mobileye solution that was used on non-AP Model Ss that required them to develop an update.)

 

[Daniel in SD]

Why do you think the mode already exists?

Because it turns off if you unplug the wheel speed sensor. There must be a mode in the software to detect that and turn it off. I think you're making this way more complicated than it really is. It would be way easier than adding fart mode.

 

[Glamisduner]

Anything requiring changes to the software and especially the UI does not "cost them nothing". And in some countries might even require getting the new software version re-homologated. (I don't think that is true in the US.)

Why do you think the mode already exists?



I'm not sure but I thought they said that they weren't disabling it, but they were modifying how it operated.

And how much time and money have they put in to development on that and they still don't have a product ready to sell? And Tesla could break it with the next software update. (Just like a recent software update broke the aftermarket Mobileye solution that was used on non-AP Model Ss that required them to develop an update.)

I hate having to agree with you. It would likely cost very little to add this feature, is more correct. If they gave out the existing track mode to P3D-, it would cost even less (sure someone still has to press the button)

 

[MP3Mike]

Because it turns off if you unplug the wheel speed sensor. There must be a mode in the software to detect that and turn it off.

Track mode/nannie disabling for P3D-s secured.

 

[caskater47]

I did not think PUP was a good value either. 20 inch wheels and tires are heavy. Will be expensive to replace and I will have problems if I want to drive to the snow in them.

I was already looking for replacements but have waited to see how the 19 Inch Chinese wheels do, and what the forged reward wheels are going to be about. Also, more time for 3rd party to come up with other packages.

I agree with a lot of the sentiment and issues you brought up. 3P- should have been called AWD+ and 3P+ should have had a bullet point that stated

• Future software features exclusive to Model 3 Performance cars. OR
• Future software features exclusive to Model 3 Performance cars with premium upgrade package.

What makes things really cloudy is our MVPA doesn't promise TM on any version of the Model 3.

There must be reasons why Tesla doesn't

1.) Just push the software out to all 3P- cars and call it a day.
2.) Charge $7,000 to retrofit 3P- to 3P+. (3P- got free 18 inch wheels and aeros that 3P+ buyers did not).

In a hypothetical board meeting, I am sure this was brought up. Somehow (to the best of our current knowledge anyway), it was not deemed practical?

So it seemed very easy for Elon to go, here's $5K for everyone. Go away.

Is difficult to say for sure. It would have been fun to be a fly on the wall in that meeting. I still think Tesla has a responsibility here to us to communicate their intentions.

The refund was sold BY Elon as a way to make us whole for the price drop, not losing support as a Performance model. If their intent was to buy me off for dropping support of my car they failed to communicate that intent. In fact they specifically communicated that I was getting a refund on my FUSC if anything. Given that I still think they owe us something additional to make us whole for killing the car and ending support well before any reasonable product life expectency.

I'm not saying that should take place in the form of another refund. I don't want more money from them. But it should be something of value. A basic Track Mode, custom firmware, free EAP, or know knows what else. Just about anything would do. Obviously I prefer Track Mode or some variant over EAP.

 

[Perry]

Yes, and I did.

Well, I can't disagree with you there. FUSC was never worth 5K. But that was Elon's justification for why it was fair to lower the price by 5K. He said because new owners would not get FUSC and that was worth 5K to him. I am not going to argue with his reasoning but he made it right by that exact amount which was the right thing to do (the amount our cars depreciated after just a few days of ownership). So it was not ill-gotten any more than the 5K less that new owners had to pay.

 

[Perry]

We all had access to the same info.

Which was no info.

Your poor planning and risk taking is now Elon's emergency and TSLA bailout. Your decision was not the best obviously. The best decision for getting track mode was the PUP package.

Only hindsight makes you the great planner. It was all guesswork and luck. Had he given TM to all performance models from the beginning, you would have looked like the poor planner for buying something you didn't need.

The thing is that there wasn't enough info to make proper decisions. It was all conjecture and guess work.

You could have parted out the 5K package items if you felt they were mediocre. Same concept as buying a computer, replacing the video card and selling the one that came with the machine?

I build my own PCs from scratch and have been since 1990. It makes no sense to buy a crap PC (which they all are if pre-built) and part it out.

 

[Perry]

OH HEY.......look at THIS...........

I put in a question through my MyTesla page this weekend, and I just received the following reply:

(I'll unblock my good friend @MXWing for his reply)


View attachment 376346

Hmm.. If this is true, it's looking like I was probably right. It took no extra development to add it in, other than flipping a switch on a targeted VIN range. And yes I maintain that it will work without hardware modifications.

 

[tomas]

Hmm.. If this is true, it's looking like I was probably right. It took no extra development to add it in, other than flipping a switch on a targeted VIN range. And yes I maintain that it will work without hardware modifications.

Don’t get too excited. I read that as a customer service person who thinks all Ps have PUP. Which they have since October.

 

[MXWing]

Just as an example, I know of one person who didn't have FUSC who go the 5K discount anyway. Giving up FUSC was not a requirement for the 5K discount. If you didn't have FUSC, you could still get the 5K rebate. The requirement was that you can't double dip.

The flip side is that one person probably would either automatically get FUSC enabled or could have asked for FUSC. Net gain no matter what you chose. Though there are fools or people who make sentimental decisions (like myself) that has elected to keep FUSC in lieu of $5,000.

Which was no info.

We saw all the demo videos with track mode was 3P+. Also, there was ZERO chance something was going to go to 3P- but NOT 3P+. Absence of proof does not challenge the fact of existence. In this case, if track mode came out, it was assured on 3P+. This alone made the decision tree 100% certain.

Only hindsight makes you the great planner. It was all guesswork and luck. Had he given TM to all performance models from the beginning, you would have looked like the poor planner for buying something you didn't need.

The thing is that there wasn't enough info to make proper decisions. It was all conjecture and guess work.

Could I guarantee track mode was NOT coming to 3P-? NOPE. Only thing I could guarantee was track mode was coming to 3P+. That was the info needed to make the decision.

Poor planner isn't the right terminology. "Risk adverse" is the term. Buying ANY insurance basically over mandated minimums could be considered poor planning through that logic.

Predictions get less accurate the farther you go into the future. No one expected Elon could be bullied by Model 3 owners. He didn't bow down to S or X owners? Something changed. There is a new baseline.

I build my own PCs from scratch and have been since 1990. It makes no sense to buy a crap PC (which they all are if pre-built) and part it out.

What if it was a laptop you wanted 32GB DDR4-3200MHZ of ram on yet it comes with 16GB DDR4-2133 as two 8GB sodimm modules? You are not building that laptop from scratch. You are also not able to buy it with any lower configuration. That 16GB is wasted in your eyes.

Same crap with spoilers, pedals, 20 inch heavy wheels, rims, underlined badges etc.

 

[Perry]

actually, and I may have interpreted it wrong, but I read it as: the update is ready, but they're going to package it in with the next point release, so one day soon, you'll get either the update with folding mirrors and blindspot warning, or sentry mode+dog mode, AND track mode embedded.

but I'm sure we could now spend another 8 pages breaking down the wording of that email.

Yea, I agree. TM has always been ready because, in my opinion, it needs no changes from + to -. They could have released it any time but it looks like it was really really low on the priority list.

A good Track Mode system should not rely on relatively small hardware differences when environmental/road/parts conditions can introduce much larger variables into the equation which the system has to account for anyway. A set of warnout brake pads on glazed rotors in 120 degrees temperature on a P+ will brake fade much faster than new pads on new rotors in 60 degree temperature on a P- (all stock). I've always argued and continue to, that Track Mode can handle and adjust accordingly to these kind of delta characteristics as well as hardware differences such as the ones between P+ and P- and probably even more.