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Update to the Supercharger network policies
- Thread starter Bluechip
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- Tesla Inc.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I'm not suggesting that Tesla couldn't easily do it, I'm saying they would probably face some serious legal issues by essentially crippling a vehicle after a sale has taken place. The free SC access has some value which was presumably paid for during the sale, removing that seems as if it would be theft of service or something. I'm not a lawyer so I could be wrong.
Bangor Bob
Member
Have you ever driven a 50MPG hybrid? There's a value you can assign to not having to subject yourself to that.
mmd
Active Member
I don't see why it is any different than 'life of the car' . 'your' and 'the' both are used to talk about a specific car.
I do not believe this clears Tesla from any legal challenge, If they wrote "for the life of your ownership of the vehicle", then it would be different.
If Tesla wants to undermine the resale value of vehicles they resell, they can do that.
However if they try to do that to third parties I expect they would lose the lawsuit. Perfect for small claims court.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Where does Tesla say "free" supercharging passes to a new owner upon the sale of the vehicle? None of my paperwork says that. With Sirius satellite radio, if a new owner calls up because of no service on a lifetime receiver they just bought, Sirius sends out a kill signal and won't even speak to the new owner about the problem unless you sign up for a subscription. This is also common with most other lifetime subs. Remember, the supercharging is not taken away from you and the new owner has no privity of contract with Tesla so good luck with the legal action. I'm not saying there won't be one but I sure wouldn't want to be a part of it, and risk paying some substantial costs for such little benefit.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Interesting point but the difference is you paid for a lifetime subscription independently of the physical product. At least as I understand it, you bought a receiver and paid for a lifetime subscription, no? Tesla buyers, other than original 60 buyers, paid for a vehicle that included lifetime SC use.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
Not true. It must be attached to a receiver but it could be transferred twice to other receivers for a small fee. There's a class action suit involving Sirius and a similar lifetime sub issue that I have been following since it interests me:
https://consumermediallc.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/siriuslifetimecompt.pdf
I suspect there might also be one with Tesla, if they do take away free supercharging upon sales, but that's just the cost of doing business for Tesla. They won't be running scared, that's for sure. I'm quite certain they went into this with lawyers reviewing the wording of what was offered.
I doubt any Small Claims court has jurisdiction over this type of lawsuit.
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mmd
Active Member
I believe the context was private sale, not trading in to Tesla CPO. I am talking only about private sales.
So, you think the following conversation is ok during a private sale?
Seller: Yes, yes. My car has free super charger access. (It is technically his car till the very point of ownership transfer.)
Buyer (right after sale): No, it doesn't have free super charger access. You liar!
This is just being sleazy and deceptive, probably plain fraud.
BTW, how will Tesla even know about the private party sale? DMV knows, but how will Tesla know of ownership change?
Will the same sleazy rule apply if the car is gifted to someone, or someone inherits the car?
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Right, so the lifetime subscription exists as a separate entity from a specific receiver and is purchased separately. In other words you can buy that same receiver without a lifetime subscription. You can't buy a Tesla, (other than the original 60), without SC access, so I don't think it's the same thing, and with the original 60 SC access does not transfer to another vehicle, so again not the same as the Sirius lifetime sub.
I'm guessing you didn't mean this as an ad hominem, but yes, currently do, and have for the last 12 years.
Is there some similar benefit a manufacturer offers that may help aid in determining whether Tesla could legally strip a privately sold Tesla of the free, lifetime SC access?
Do "free maintenance and oil changes for first X years" benefits transfer to new owners of privately sold gas cars, for example?
Do "free maintenance and oil changes for first X years" benefits transfer to new owners of privately sold gas cars, for example?
Ah, but most times a new owner creates their own My Tesla account. Then Tesla knows about the transfer and could offer up a supercharger plan to the new owner if tbey wanted to.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
I don't see the distinction you make as having much relevance in relation to the main issue.
I can't find any example where "lifetime" benefits transfers to a new owner. The closest is Sirius and they take it away from new owners.
Unless someone can show that Tesla sold you supercharging that transfers to a new owner upon the sale of your vehicle, it seems premature to me to say that Tesla can't "legally" take supercharging away from new owners (and let's also remember they still haven't said this). The issue of legality is something that the courts must decide and not people on a forum. It certainly seems legal to me. In fact, this is not even an issue in the Sirius lawsuit. But I'm not the judge or jury and both sides deserve an opportunity to present evidence, cross-examine witnesses, argue the issues, and receive judgment. Before that time comes, in my view it is not fair for us to be labeling something legal or illegal.
mmd
Active Member
Yes, they generally do, unless explicitly excluded. A 1 minute search turned up this page.
Free Car Maintenance Programs | Edmunds
Edmunds said:
Here is their pdf with more details about specific automakers' programs. Cadillac, Chevrolet and GMC explicitly mention that the plan is "transferable". I do not think Tesla is in a new territory that it will set the first precedence. Isn't the extended warranty transferable already?
https://static.ed.edmunds-media.com...maintenance.programs/free.vehicle.maint.5.pdf
I doubt it would drive the prices of CPO cars down much. They still come with free Supercharging, (400kWh/year), which is enough for most people, especially if it includes the ability to roll-it-over. And the CPOs come with a fresh 4-year 50k warranty, that a used car doesn't come with. (Yes, a used car might come with an ESA, but it isn't the same, as isn't always possible.)
But most importantly it removes cars from the free unlimited Supercharging pool, which is good for Tesla so they will probably take whatever hit they need to. In fact as, I have said before, I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla started paying the same or, even more, than private sale value for trade-ins with unlimited Supercharging just so they can turn it off. (Some people have even said they would take a one-time payment, or free maintenance visits, from Tesla to switch their car to the new plan since it meets their needs.)
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