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[UPDATED] 2 die in Tesla crash - NHTSA reports driver seat occupied
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EVNow
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Do they have 60 votes ? If not, makes no difference./cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/EMKGKBQGL5NYRPC3CIFKCBBX74.jpg)
Three U.S. senators want driver monitoring systems mandated
Three Democratic U.S. senators on Monday said they are introducing legislation that would require U.S. regulators to mandate installation of driver-monitoring systems to ensure motorists pay attention while using systems like Tesla's (TSLA.O) Autopilot.www.reuters.com
But on the whole - I actually agree that NTSB should set driver monitoring standards. Usually when these things are done - they will give manufacturers quite a bit of time to implement (legacy auto needs years & years to make any change).
LOL. I believe in US, cops can kill with impunity let alone get sued for statements that may later turn out to be not true.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
What exactly does "deformed" mean here - bent ? How does that prove there was likely someone in the seat ?
Yes, because the average person in the back of a vehicle is expected to have read the manual for the vehicle they are in as a passenger.
Functionally, the doors do not open without 12V. There is *a* way to open them, but it has nothing to do with the normal way. You have to peel back carpet or pop off a speaker cover.
The Model 3/Y does not have any way to override the rear doors, so clearly this is not something Tesla finds is needed for acceptable safety.
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Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
I would not say it is "likely". An accident like that, most anything can deform a steering wheel.
Steering wheel torque? That's hardly a monitoring system as most of us that have used it finds it often doesn't know you are there. The interior camera is not functional on the 3/Y and doesn't exist in an S/X. They've already shown they don't use weight in seat either.
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Sorry, I meant original scenario from Tesla owners, not the Constable who was fantasizing about a driverless car.
I imagine it depends on how it was deformed, which Tesla and NTSB/NHTSA witnessed. And they have experience in knowing how a steering wheel deforms in various accidents. So they concluded that it was likely that there was a person in the driver's seat.
bobby g
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EVNow
Well-Known Member
It has a lot of false negatives - but unless you hack - no false positives. So, definitely a driver monitoring system.
Assuming your only requirement is "are hands on wheel and disagreeing with my motions" not "is driver paying attention".
Weight in seat or seatbelt engaged would be a driver monitoring system as well by this very basic definition. You could even claim a microphone listening to hear if the driver is snoring is a driver monitoring system.
Every article published (around the world) should have a correction to it. The press has made this be or sound like an autopilot story. Sure wonder what Consumer Reports will say about this.
It would be even better if Tesla sued all main stream media who perpetuated the "Autopilot crash" fake news.
This seems to have worked great for Dominion for the Stolen Election narrative -- ever since they filed the suits all media avoids mentioning those words and cut off any interviewed person who attempts to bring up anything of the sort.
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
You always make a good point. The only reason why I hesitate about the word "Likely" a person was in the front in a preliminary assessment, I am trying to imagine someone in the front seat being able to deform a very hard steering wheel in an accident yet not causing enough damage to their 59 year old body that they can then still get out of that set. But yea, the NTSB will have a much better idea after the final review.
Dangerous precedent for Tesla to begin suing people who have said things which end up not being true, particularly around autopilot.
People can have their eyes on the road and be lost in thought. I think on some long drives that’s particularly true. No way to monitor for that.
Per Elon on the Q1 call, there were no fastened seat belts. The driver may have ended up on the back seat through physics, not of their own volition. Especially if the mention up thread of the car being angled up the tree is accurate.
It's hard to imagine a scenaio where a crash has sufficent deceleration for a steering wheel to deform purely due to its own mass.
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
yup, I heard that too. I was wondering were those guys both deaf or just not care about the constant dinging sound of the unfastened seat belt that drives me nuts if I forget to click it.
Hard for me to imagine someone ending up in a back seat from physics in a FORWARD crash, but I guess anything is possible.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
This is the reason why some kind of std would be good to establish - after thorough R&D.
"Is driver paying attention" is a very difficult problem to solve. Neuralink perhaps ?
So they have no datalogs, but are 100% sure the seatbelts weren't fastened at the moment of impact? How? Couldn't they be unfastened after the impact? It's highly likely that Elon means "they were found unfastened" in his notoriously imprecise language.
The mix of data here isn't consistent and it's quite possible the words said on this call are just adding to the confusion.
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