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[updated with *] P85D 691HP should have an asterisk * next to it.. "Up to 691HP"
- Thread starter krisg81
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
thegruf
Active Member
I understand the suggestion, however I think is very unlikely TM will do this as they are trying their hardest to reduce options to simplify manufacturing and improve efficiency.
Different gearing for different models would also require recalibration of a number of other systems eg traction control, braking regen, TACC.
Sorry folks, cant see this happening.
Different gearing for different models would also require recalibration of a number of other systems eg traction control, braking regen, TACC.
Sorry folks, cant see this happening.
I'm afraid you're right! Only hope for me in that regard is firmware upgrade on April 30th.
Kalud
Active Member
There seems to be other variable than just SOC. On my P85 I see anything from 330kW (442hp) to 345kW (463hp) via the API for 90% SOC. Temperature might be playing a role. These were from relatively mild 18C (64F). Like the actual power limiter is not always exactly at the same place and move higher with higher battery temperature (within some limit where it start decreasing again).
I'd try a max power output test with a warmer battery, like after driving for a while and then after Supercharging to 90%.
From: BU-502: Discharging at High and Low Temperatures Battery University
I'd try a max power output test with a warmer battery, like after driving for a while and then after Supercharging to 90%.
From: BU-502: Discharging at High and Low Temperatures Battery University
thegruf
Active Member
Did I miss it, or was there no Apr 30 announcement on improved P85D performance? Only the Powerwall stuff.
Beginning to think 515KW is just a questionablr power rating and never going to be a reality.
Beginning to think 515KW is just a questionablr power rating and never going to be a reality.
Yup, I was also hoping for something to be announced. If it wasn't already pretty obvious, I think we have to take everything Elon writes on Twitter with a grain of salt.
I can't remember if the whole "Motor Power" qualifier was there when I ordered my P85D, but it's not listed for the other variants, which leads me to believe that's their way of saying we'll never actually see 515kW in the real world.
I'm curious whether anyone within Tesla is still claiming any upcoming power delivery improvements for P85D beyond the 3.1s 0-60 and 155mph top speed.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
To be fair, 99% of that is people here (and elsewhere) reading too much into the tweet. The tweet itself on the surface appears to only be a thought experiment (that it would be cool to do that), and the reality is that it's probably the case.
I just called Tesla, who directed me to Tesla Technical Support, who said "I've heard something about that, and something about there being a couple of different ways of measuring horsepower." When I explained that no matter how you measure horsepower, you can't get to 691 hp by inverting less than 515kW, and that my car has never inverted even 480kW, she directed me to a phone number that turned out to be my delivery specialist in Denver. I decided not to waste any more of my time.
Apparently the power limitations, and the reasons for them, are being kept secret even from Tesla Technical Support.
Perhaps the title of this thread should not be 'P85D 691HP should have an asterisk * next to it.. "Up to 691HP"' but rather "You may get up to 691hp in some other car someday, but not this one."
Apparently the power limitations, and the reasons for them, are being kept secret even from Tesla Technical Support.
Perhaps the title of this thread should not be 'P85D 691HP should have an asterisk * next to it.. "Up to 691HP"' but rather "You may get up to 691hp in some other car someday, but not this one."
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I doubt Tech support would know much about the exact power it outputs or the marketing on it (which is why they directed your question to your DS). They probably support things like using the user interface and the key fob. Tesla engineering would know, but I think the only way to reach them is through the service center (and I'm not sure if it's possible to reach directly).
691hp tells what the motors are capable of, so depending on where the bottleneck is (inverter or battery) that means a battery swap or inverter swap may allow the same car to make that much HP (at the same time). There's still a possibility it's a software update away, but chances appear slim right now.
It doesn't matter how they tweaked the wording. Elon has been quoted in video's and articles as saying the P85D *has* 691 hp. If they don't eventually deliver that, there's going to be blood.
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Until some real Dynojet numbers are obtained from multiple P85Ds and made public, nothing is going to happen.
Danal
electricmotorglider.com
Dynojet/Mustang seem unable to measure. Wheel slip.
We need a Dynapak. Take the wheels off and bolt the car's hubs to the Dyno. I'm tracking one down now in the Dallas area... but the shop that has it is not all that responsive to email/web. I may have to pay them a visit.
Anyone else know where to access a Dynapak (4 wheel)?
We need a Dynapak. Take the wheels off and bolt the car's hubs to the Dyno. I'm tracking one down now in the Dallas area... but the shop that has it is not all that responsive to email/web. I may have to pay them a visit.
Anyone else know where to access a Dynapak (4 wheel)?
These guys have one and are relatively close to where I work in the Bay Area... $175 for a 4WD run:
Dyno Tuning Info
I do some tuning on Subaru's and use a Dynapack DAQ54. I have tried the Tesla and its not possible to get correct hp/nm. I always get a to much torque error and it shuts down to protect itself if I floor it from start. Have to wait to about 50-60 km/h before i can floor it.
The reason is that the Dynapack DAQ54 is rated to 2625hp/8500nm (4wd) and 1390hp/4500nm (2wd) on the hubs. But the gear ratio on the Tesla is the problem. On a normal car we always dyno in the gear that is closest to 1:1 ratio.
For the Tesla the gear ratio is 9.73:1. So the torque for the rear engine is 5838nm on the hubs and the front is 3210nm. So the front engine is no problem, it is the rear that shuts down the dyno because the limit is 4500nm on the rear pods.
The dynapack is also very unhappy with the instant torque the Tesla does make.
I had a Subaru STi before that did make 510hp/667nm. 4th og 5th gear no problem in the dynapack. But if I had tried 1 gear, it will be 9458nm on the hubs. So the dynapack will then shut down and give a to much torque error
To convert NM to lb*ft go here. Im to lazy
Convert lb*ft to N*m - Conversion of Measurement Units
The reason is that the Dynapack DAQ54 is rated to 2625hp/8500nm (4wd) and 1390hp/4500nm (2wd) on the hubs. But the gear ratio on the Tesla is the problem. On a normal car we always dyno in the gear that is closest to 1:1 ratio.
For the Tesla the gear ratio is 9.73:1. So the torque for the rear engine is 5838nm on the hubs and the front is 3210nm. So the front engine is no problem, it is the rear that shuts down the dyno because the limit is 4500nm on the rear pods.
The dynapack is also very unhappy with the instant torque the Tesla does make.
I had a Subaru STi before that did make 510hp/667nm. 4th og 5th gear no problem in the dynapack. But if I had tried 1 gear, it will be 9458nm on the hubs. So the dynapack will then shut down and give a to much torque error
To convert NM to lb*ft go here. Im to lazy
Convert lb*ft to N*m - Conversion of Measurement Units
Last edited:
Gizmotoy
Active Member
It was. I noticed it on launch day and mentioned it on one of the threads, but it didn't seem to raise any flags for anyone else. Having two independent motors leaves a lot of room to massage the numbers while still being technically correct.
I've driven by there. It's not much to look at. The owner/operator/mechanic is a big MR2 guy and has a good reputation in that circle. Could be worth a shot.
Edit: While I was taking my sweet time to post, Dennis chimed in about why a Dynapack won't work. Oh well.
This isn't the first time industry equipment just isn't ready for a Tesla. Crushing machine comes to mind. As does roll-over test.
Danal
electricmotorglider.com
I do some tuning on Subaru's and use a Dynapack DAQ54. I have tried the Tesla and its not possible to get correct hp/nm. I always get a to much torque error and it shuts down to protect itself if I floor it from start. Have to wait to about 50-60 km/h before i can floor it.
The reason is that the Dynapack DAQ54 is rated to 2625hp/8500nm (4wd) and 1390hp/4500nm (2wd) on the hubs. But the gear ratio on the Tesla is the problem. On a normal car we always dyno in the gear that is closest to 1:1 ratio.
For the Tesla the gear ratio is 9.73:1. So the torque for the rear engine is 5838nm on the hubs and the front is 3210nm. So the front engine is no problem, it is the rear that shuts down the dyno because the limit is 4500nm on the rear pods.
The dynapack is also very unhappy with the instant torque the Tesla does make.
I had a Subaru STi before that did make 510hp/667nm. 4th og 5th gear no problem in the dynapack. But if I had tried 1 gear, it will be 9458nm on the hubs. So the dynapack will then shut down and give a to much torque error
To convert NM to lb*ft go here. Im to lazy
Convert lb*ft to N*m - Conversion of Measurement Units
Dennis, THANK YOU. Very good info there.
I'm wondering if a DAQ55 would help at all? DAQ55 is rated 9000 overall, instead of DAQ54's 8500, not that big a difference. Probably not. Oh well...
We are primarily interested in the low end of the hub RPM range, given the 0-60 speed range of primary interest. Therefore, I'm visualizing a 2:1 planetary gear (or similar) adapter between the Tesla and the Dynapak. Double the RPM, half the torque. Still lots of torque; so these would have to be some kind of off-the-shelf unit that could take the stress. While it is unlikely that we'll find anything (that's affordable), I'll poke around a little bit.
Second choice would be a home-made dynapak. Possible using salvage industrial electric motors as generators for the load units.
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