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bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
You may think it's not a big deal, but we've had this discussion on the forum in the past. It was a very big deal.
More than 1,000 U.S. Signatures (confirmed)
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Vger
Active Member
I am really curious to know how many of these MX to MSD conversions there actually were. Perhaps we will hear something about this on the conference call in two weeks (or not). Is there any way we can crowd-source an estimate, based on people's sequence numbers?
Times they are a changing. I don't see anyone much crying wolf in this thread when the Upgrade button returned. But if it was in any way unclear, this is my opinion on how things are, others of course have other opinions.
If they were to add a big number of Signatures, that is one thing. I do understand that is not OK. I just fear in this case it may have been more about policy - even things like not sending the swag bags to people who hadn't yet wired the money say to me someone is not thinking these things quite through. That's just petty. Acknowledging a mistake, yet honoring the commitment would have been a stand-up thing to do. That is just my opinion, of course, as I said.
It is all about what produces the least amount of disgruntled people. I think denying a bunch of upgrades they offered by mistake will produce more disgruntled people than allowing an increase in Signature numbers (at least today, for Model X Signatures, which are not the same as Model S Signatures). Especially considering they pretty surely lost a bunch of Signature reservations when the D happened and surely have free spots. They could have at the very least offered waiting list spots or something, as a courtesy, in case the quota was tight.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Times they are a changing. I don't see anyone much crying wolf in this thread when the Upgrade button returned. But if it was in any way unclear, this is my opinion on how things are, others of course have other opinions.
I'm not going to speak for others, but I assumed that the Upgrade button reappeared because a number of X Signature reservation holders cancelled and purchased the Model S with AWD & D, now that it's available. It never occurred to me that Tesla was opening up the numbers.
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And to clarify, I don't have a strong opinion on if the number of Signatures should be opened up or not. I'm just suggesting that perhaps there was not a negative response to the upgrade button reappearing because others assumed the same thing that I did.
If they were going to open things up, then people currently on the wait list should be contacted first, in order that they went on the wait list.
Some were really upset that even 50 Canadian Signatures crossed border to US since that diluted their Signature car even if they were in the 900s. As long as they don't expand the number of Sigs I don't think anyone will have a problem.
And this is why they had no choice but to refund the people who took advantage of the Upgrade button glitch. There is an established wait list and it would be unfair to those at the top of that list to have people who managed to find the button jump ahead of them. In time more signatures will be made available due to cancellations, but with priority given to those who have had their names in the longest.
NigelM
Recovering Member
You're mistaken. You've pushed in several places that Tesla needs to do the right thing in this or that situation, in this case Tesla needs to keep their promise to the Sig reservation holders. The argument is valid for 5, 50, 500 or whatever number you'd like to add; it would be a greater wrong for Tesla to break their long standing promise because of a short term error.
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nymjk
Member
Oh, I am SURE there was some drama in the Tesla halls. This was no "glitch." Someone had to code the web page and post it. I am sure that the final go ahead was never given; someone jumped the gun and the big boys didn't realize what happened until the checks started rolling in on Tuesday morning.
I, for one, couldn't stop laughing when the poor kid called and sheepishly apologized. Sure, I was disappointed that I couldn't jump the the head of the line (I've got #10,531) and cut months off my delivery date. Damn!
I don't think there was a "glitch" either.
My funds were transferred FAST. That wasn't a simple coding glitch. The finance office processed the transfer within 12 hours of my reservation being placed.
I didn't get a call until later last night. When I saw "Palo Alto" on my phone's display, I just laughed. The guy seemed surprised that I expected this and was so casual about it. Apparently, folks have been angry. But I figure, no harm, no foul, as long as they wire the funds back in the next few days.
The way I see it, I'm exactly where I was last week, except for a couple days of excitement that didn't pan out. Ah well. Definitely a first world problem. I'll survive.
My funds were transferred FAST. That wasn't a simple coding glitch. The finance office processed the transfer within 12 hours of my reservation being placed.
I didn't get a call until later last night. When I saw "Palo Alto" on my phone's display, I just laughed. The guy seemed surprised that I expected this and was so casual about it. Apparently, folks have been angry. But I figure, no harm, no foul, as long as they wire the funds back in the next few days.
The way I see it, I'm exactly where I was last week, except for a couple days of excitement that didn't pan out. Ah well. Definitely a first world problem. I'll survive.
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Disagreement doesn't mean anyone is necessarily mistaken. How do you do the right thing when doing it in one place causes you to do the not right thing in another? A dilemma, certainly.
It isn't so much about the right thing to do either, but about what I think causes the least amount of disgruntled people. You disagree and that's fine of course.
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Sure, I agree that's possible and agree on the last point as well.
favo
P3D+ owner
The scenario I imagine starts with some folks canceling their Sig X for whatever reason (P85D, downgrade to production X, or just plain old cancel), then someone in management says, "OK, we now have a few Sig X slots open. Start processing some orders." What they meant was, contact the people on the waiting list and see who wants to upgrade. However, someone misunderstood and thought they should re-enable the button. Or maybe the web site just checks a database for the Sig quota or cutoff date to determine whether to enable the button. (Oops, forgot to account for waiting list in the code.)
Yes, I spoke with someone a few months ago and supposedly got put on it. They can't say how many are on, where you are on the list, or when you might find out. All I'm really looking for is delivery before WA state sales tax for EVs kicks in again on July 1, 2015. I do understand that others want exclusivity, special colors, low VIN numbers, collectability, etc.
But if you want on the mysterious signature wait list, I'd give them a call.
Pretty creative marketing going on, perhaps by Hubertus Bigend at Blue Ant.
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NigelM
Recovering Member
Thank you. Having lived through the Model S Sig discussion, and being an X Sig reservation holder myself, I believe you're mistaken in your opinion; but you're entitled to it nonetheless.
By the way, I do acknowledge and respect the long experience in Tesla and TMC many of you have. I can see that experience has also cemented some opinions I may not share. This is like a new employee joining an old organization, are their fresh ideas ignorance or inspiration? It can certainly go either way.
Personally, as an EU Model X Signature holder, I wouldn't mind new recruits at all as long as the basic premise of reservations before building starts and the number remains reasonably low. 1000, 2000 just fine. 10000 not.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
By the way, I do acknowledge and respect the long experience in Tesla and TMC many of you have. I can see that experience has also cemented some opinions I may not share. This is like a new employee joining an old organization, are their fresh ideas ignorance or inspiration? It can certainly go either way.
Personally, as an EU Model X Signature holder, I wouldn't mind new recruits at all as long as the basic premise of reservations before building starts and the number remains reasonably low. 1000, 2000 just fine. 10000 not.
I think what you're missing is that the promise that Tesla makes of 'being one of the first [n] owners' was a selling point and continues to be. Changing [n] is paramount to changing a contractual agreement to many folks here, as demonstrated by the link I supplied earlier. "I pay you more for the deposit, in return you give me this." There hasn't historically been much other value to receiving a Signature, so it would be (imo) a huge mistake for Tesla to say 'oh hey, thanks for your $40k all this time - we're changing it up slightly, hope you don't mind'.
I guess it really depends on whether or not [n] was advertised. In the case of Model X, I took Signature to mean a promise of first and thus early delivery - plus some options/features to signify the difference. Hence my different opinion. As long as Signature reservation order is honored, happens before production and the number stays low enough to be exclusive, I wouldn't have an issue.
Was Model X [n] advertised as an exact set number?
JakeP
S P4996 ==> P02547
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Yes, [n] was advertised as equal to 1200 North America Signature reservations.
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