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If you just asked whether energy prices will decrease anytime soon, the answer is “hahahahahaha!”Will supercharger cost per kwh decrease in future months?
Or it's even better to own a ICE car.
But the gas price is decreasing very quicklyIf you just asked whether energy prices will decrease anytime soon, the answer is “hahahahahaha!”
In Texas, around 3-5/kWh. Hope it decreases more.Over the last several days the prices went down 6 cents on average all around CA. That helps.
How are you calculating these gallon of gas equivalents? If you're paying 10 cents per kWh at home, get 3 miles per kWh, and assume a 30 mpg equivalent if the car was gas, you're paying $1 for the same miles driven on a gallon of gas. At 40 cents per kWh you are paying more than gas but certainly not $13 +.I have the same question as the OP. Purchasing an equivalent amount of energy as one gallon of gasoline at a Supercharger costs $13.48 if the Supercharger cost is .40/ kwh. Which is what I'm seeing now and frequently even higher. Having spotted the gas price today of $3.08 this seems like a huge discrepancy that could be lessened. I don't pretent to understand the vagaries of the energy markets but do fully understand that Tesla wants to recoup the cost of installing the vast Supercharger network. To those of you who possess knowledge on this subject, once again we ask- do you see a path to a lesser supercharger rate? At home I pay about 10 cents/kwh which equates to $3.37 per gallon of gas equivalent. At 100-130 mpg it's very economical but at .40 the conversion yields about 30 mpg or less. So on a trip the gas guzzler does as well or perhaps better than my efficient Tesla. Don't like that.
There's no mistake per se, but what you're missing is that the EV goes much further on the equivalent amount of energy.There are two comparisons: energy equivalence and economic equivalence. One gallon of gas holds 33.7 kwh of energy. My Tesla has averaged 3.85 miles per kwh for its life so 3.85 miles/kwh x 33.7 kwh/gal = 129.7 miles/gal equivalent. If I pay .10/kwh x 33.7 kwh/gal = $3.37 /gal, so for $3.37 I have purchased an equivalent amount of energy as one gallon of gasoline. If I do 3.85 m/kwh we have the same 129.7 mpg. If I pay .40 per kwh, then divide by 4 and you get 32.4 mpg, or multiply the cost by 4 and you get $13.48. If the gas price goes up the mpg goes up and if gas is cheaper the mpg goes down. In my area $3.37 is a fairly representative price right now. I know it seems absurd and I would love to be wrong but it seems like a straightforward calculation. I would be happy to read where my mistake was. Let me know.
and your EV goes 129 miles on that energy. No ICE car comes close.so for $3.37 I have purchased an equivalent amount of energy as one gallon of gasoline
Yes, if you are paying typical supercharger peak rates your cost *per mile driven* is similar to a gas burning car. In some places you can do better by supercharging during off peak hours at lower rates, but that varies by location.If I pay .40 per kwh, then divide by 4 and you get 32.4 mpg
I don't believe I overlooked that point as here is what I said about it:There's no mistake per se, but what you're missing is that the EV goes much further on the equivalent amount of energy.
I know you questioned my statement that electricity could cost so much relative to gasoline but I think you now understand that it is indeed exorbitantly high at the superchargers. What no one has sufficiently answered is whether this huge discrepancy will be ameliorated in the future. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. But even at those rates I get an mpge as good as or better than most ICE cars, I feel better about my environmental impact and don't we all just love driving these things!If I pay .10/kwh x 33.7 kwh/gal = $3.37 /gal, so for $3.37 I have purchased an equivalent amount of energy as one gallon of gasoline. If I do 3.85 m/kwh we have the same 129.7 mpg.
I’m glad I can charge at home 95% of the time where the rates are relatively inexpensive. If I lived in a condo or apartment where I was relegated to using expensive public chargers it would definitely cut into the cost benefits of owning an EV and would be less convenient. Hopefully as more superchargers come on line they’ll become competitively priced. But this will probably require saturation levels similar to gas stations (on street corners around the country and at least one in every town).I don't believe I overlooked that point as here is what I said about it:
I know you questioned my statement that electricity could cost so much relative to gasoline but I think you now understand that it is indeed exorbitantly high at the superchargers. What no one has sufficiently answered is whether this huge discrepancy will be ameliorated in the future. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. But even at those rates I get an mpge as good as or better than most ICE cars, I feel better about my environmental impact and don't we all just love driving these things!
Agree totally regarding charging at home and I mirror your situation. As to the ubiquity of public rapid charging stations it seems to me this is the "chicken or egg" story. Those living in apartments aren't going to buy EVs if they can't charge reasonably (close and economically priced) and no one's gonna put up expensive stations if there aren't sufficient EV's that need to be charged on a frequent basis. Perhaps the evolution there will be apartment complexes installing Level 2 charging stations; they could leverage that amenity to higher rents or make income on the stations per charge and still make it a reasonable alternative to ICE.I’m glad I can charge at home 95% of the time where the rates are relatively inexpensive. If I lived in a condo or apartment where I was relegated to using expensive public chargers it would definitely cut into the cost benefits of owning an EV and would be less convenient. Hopefully as more superchargers come on line they’ll become competitively priced. But this will probably require saturation levels similar to gas stations (on street corners around the country and at least one in every town).
My dad would be 101 y.o. I know he would be super excited about EV’s if he was still alive. He loved hyper-miling in his VW Beatle including coasting in neutral whenever he could. He was also a forward thinker constantly reading Popular Mechanics and Scientific American. When we only had a B&W TV I asked him when we would get a color TV. He said “when TV’s are so thin and light weight that you can hang them on the wall like a picture.” This was in the 1960’s!Agree totally regarding charging at home and I mirror your situation. As to the ubiquity of public rapid charging stations it seems to me this is the "chicken or egg" story. Those living in apartments aren't going to buy EVs if they can't charge reasonably (close and economically priced) and no one's gonna put up expensive stations if there aren't sufficient EV's that need to be charged on a frequent basis. Perhaps the evolution there will be apartment complexes installing Level 2 charging stations; they could leverage that amenity to higher rents or make income on the stations per charge and still make it a reasonable alternative to ICE.
According to my trip meter and my electric rate I'm achieving almost 130 mpge. My father would be 112 now and he loved cars and progress; he was the first person I thought about when I got mine and wanted to show it off. He would have been to the moon in awe. Cheers
So your question is why is supercharging so much costlier than at home? I'm not as knowledgeable as many on this forum but we're talking DC charging equipment vs AC. Don't know the exact equipment cost but I'm confident we're talking tens of thousands vs a few hundred. There are also demand charges from utilities for high usage customers and those can be very expensive. Demand charge is a fee based on the peak amount of electricity the site draws during a billing period.I don't believe I overlooked that point as here is what I said about it:
I know you questioned my statement that electricity could cost so much relative to gasoline but I think you now understand that it is indeed exorbitantly high at the superchargers. What no one has sufficiently answered is whether this huge discrepancy will be ameliorated in the future. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. But even at those rates I get an mpge as good as or better than most ICE cars, I feel better about my environmental impact and don't we all just love driving these things!
I agree. With the planning, engineering, permitting, real estate agreements, equipment costs, demand pricing and maintenance, it must be super expensive to get these charge stations up and keep them running. That’s why last month when BMW, General Motors, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes and Stellantis announced they are planning to build a charging network which will not only rival Tesla’s but will also surpass it in terms of amenities, I was partly cheering and partly chuckling because oh what a tough slog it’s going to be for them to get them built.So your question is why is supercharging so much costlier than at home? I'm not as knowledgeable as many on this forum but we're talking DC charging equipment vs AC. Don't know the exact equipment cost but I'm confident we're talking tens of thousands vs a few hundred. There are also demand charges from utilities for high usage customers and those can be very expensive. Demand charge is a fee based on the peak amount of electricity the site draws during a billing period.
Anyway I doubt you will see a significant decrease in level 3 charging costs anytime soon.