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Useful range

Discussion in 'Hong Kong' started by 3fiftynine, Dec 8, 2014.

  1. 3fiftynine

    3fiftynine Member

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    I have just started tracking how I use Tesla and what is the practical useful range available to me between charges. DS recommended charging limit of 90% and I should think about charging when range drops to 2 digits, i.e. taking 10+20=30% from the range available.

    This is probably not an issue for those lucky owners with home charging (what % of them here in forum?) as the happy owners will drive off every morning with full tank of juice. I have to track usage and plan ahead of my movements. I'm now tracking distance traveled against reduction in range then I'll know deficit for typical locations that I have to go. I asked DS if there is a complete charging/usage record in the car computer but she said NO (perhaps available Tesla only)!

    Anyone wants to share your experience on (1) useful range (2) how low you have gone in range?
     
  2. DITB

    DITB Charged.hk co-founder

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    I have about 225 Wh/km in average over 3000+ km.

    Go to energy, 10 km, Average, then see what that number says. This will be more realistic than either "Ideal range" (very optimistic) or "Typical range" (still more optimistic than most people drive).

    Optimum range is around 35 km/h, no air con and of course, tailwind is better than headwind, downhill better than uphill!

    Every time you double your speed over 35, you halve the range - pretty much the same on an ICE car. Example: 120 km range at 50 km/h equals close to 60 km range at 100 km/h. Until you get stuck in traffic, this is only valid from 35 km/h and up.

    Braking and aggressive driving decreases range, as does speeds less than 35 km/h. If you kept the car on at 0 km/h you would have 0 km range, as it would eventually run out of power. People who live on HK Island typically use more than 300 Wh/km, simply because they are constantly stuck in traffic.

    I cannot charge at home, nor at work (yet). Hopefully, both places will get chargers soon. I have around 30 km to the nearest supercharger (Kai Tak), hope there will be superchargers in NT soon: Tuen Mun, Yuen Long, Sai Kung, Tung Chung/airport, Sha Tin/Ma On Shan.

    After I charge to 90% and drive home very carefully, I still only have around 300 km rated range left when I get home. Realistically, this is less than 250 km, so with 70 km round trip to work, three days is all I can do before recharging again (I don't work 9 to 5 so don't drive every day anyway, and I still take the bus to work when I am gone for longer periods).

    Yes, it is a challenge. Hopefully, superchargers and other charging infrastructure will get better.

    I suggest everyone here to get the 13A BS1363 cable.

    Yes it is slow, yes it is expensive, but often, it will give you just those km you need to get home or a supercharger. And it allows you to park in the basement of Megabox and otherwise enjoy priority of electric charging stations (when not ICEd!). It also helps to put more pressure on car park and shopping mall owners, to install chargers. I now avoid parking lots with no chargers, when possible.
     
  3. 3fiftynine

    3fiftynine Member

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    #3 3fiftynine, Dec 8, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2014
    Thanks DITB, I'll be down to 2 digits after work today so I'll see what the car can do. I drive to NT Monday to Friday dashboard shows around 200 Wh/km during weekend it shoots up to near 300Wh/km at weekend. I love to see SC in NT (Science Park, a nice midway along the highway) then I'll forget about home-charging.

    I have 13A cable on day 1, for me that's really for emergency, unless I have few hours to spare that doesn't help. If I do have few hours during workday isn't it more logical to go cruise terminal SC? charge_limit.PNG

    BTW, attached the manual about charging limit, it says "...charge to any level from 50 - 100%".
     
  4. Lerxt

    Lerxt Member

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    Perhaps get up early one or 2 mornings before work and charge at Kai Tak?
     
  5. pinguhk

    pinguhk Member

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    this sounds good and go for a run when the car is charging in the morning before work:smile:
     
  6. Captain_Kong

    Captain_Kong Member

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    i charged my MS (P85+) to 80% full which has a 355km range. But after 1500km of driving (mainly in HK island side), I average around 150-200km out of this 355km theoretical range.

    btw, I understand Supercharger is "bad" for the battery pack if used too often. I charged every 1-2 weeks using Supercharger (and love it), not daily. Anyone know the impact of this on battery degradation? Any suggestions on looking after the battery?
     
  7. Lerxt

    Lerxt Member

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    I assume you are using rated range instead of typical range? My P85 is getting 318km typical range at 80%. My average Wh/km is 227 right now.
     
  8. DITB

    DITB Charged.hk co-founder

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    #8 DITB, Dec 9, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
    Supercharging isn't bad for the battery.

    The worst you can do is to run the battery totally empty, every time. Second worst is to charge it to totally full every time.

    Keep it between 20% and 90%, and you can supercharge all you want. Remember the battery is temperature controlled, not like your smartphone or laptop which tend to get quite hot while charging. There are people who have driven 100k km or more in their Model S, and they still have almost same range as new, even with lots of supercharging (search these forums for more).

    Finally, remember the range displayed is a calculated range. If it shows a few km more or less isn't a scientific correct figure. What you need to do is charge it up, see how much is spent, and how much then remaining. Do that now, then a similar test later - and compare. Search for Bjorns videos here https://www.youtube.com/user/bjornnyland/videos - like this one:

     
  9. pinguhk

    pinguhk Member

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    No need to look after the battery. it is after all 8 year warranty.
     
  10. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    I find that to be pretty naive, first of all, some people keep cars longer than 8 years, and secondly, you can find posts on here from owners with battery packs that have noticeably lower capacity than new that Tesla refuses to address under warranty stating that it's normal (and if you look at some of the roadster packs that fall in to that category it's not a minor drop in capacity either)

    the 8 year warranty is great, but relying on it to address anything other than a complete pack failure within the first 8 years seems to be poor planning.
     
  11. Lerxt

    Lerxt Member

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    It is naive, not to mention the issue of resale value.
     
  12. 3fiftynine

    3fiftynine Member

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    I was in the Tesla service this morning for some quality issue, they fixed that in about an hour, good job! I asked again charging limit which they told us upon delivery that it should be set at 90%. I said the user manual doesn't tell us so and if I set it to 90% and go for charging with 100km left then it's a 30% off the advertised range! I have now set charge limit to about 95% as I do about 80k per day.

    By the way looking at video clip DITB posted above, what's that yellow dotted line at the first quadrant of the dial? I have that (roughly the same position) appeared last night briefly but later it disappeared!

    - - - Updated - - -

    I was told at delivery to set it as "Typical range", what's the difference anyway?
     
  13. DITB

    DITB Charged.hk co-founder

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    There are two dashed lines that can appear in the speedometer.

    The top one is if the battery is too cold or too hot. Now it's colder in HK, and at times, your battery will be at a lower temperature so it won't be able to supply the full power for maximum acceleration. It is still sufficient, though, in many cases the antispin kicks in before you get to that level anyway.

    The bottom one is max regen, which is sometimes also limited due to temperature.


    Funny enough - at some stage I was wondering what that blue arc was on the left - until I found that the speedometer reading at the middle of the display was the same as indicated on the blue dial - the SPEED! Duh!

    Set to 95% is still better than 100%. Just down run your car down close to zero every time, that is not good for the range in the long run.
     
  14. pinguhk

    pinguhk Member

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    I agree with US and UK but not in HK many owners only keep for 1 to 3 year max very rare you see a people keep a new car for over 4 years.
    Hong Kong people like new thing and not keep them for long.
    My longest owning a car was 5 years with my BMW E60 in HK. Most of the time I change every 3 to 4 years same for UK when I was driving there.
    Also don't forget this car is a very high-tec car so it will be outdated in 4 years time.

    For the 8 years warranty the HK sale guy told me if they check that 1 unit is not charging right they will change that unit not the hole lot.
     
  15. DITB

    DITB Charged.hk co-founder

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    I intend to keep my car for many years. There are not many moving parts, and it's made of Aluminium and will likely last for decades. And when I drive down the road in my 2014 Silver Metallic Model S, I will feel proud that my car was one of the first 100 Model S in Hong Kong.

    If you sell your car after 4 years, it will be someone else' problem (but they save money on sticker price).

    Well, those that can afford it maybe. "Many owners" must be a relative term, the cars won't be scrapped after 3 years, just owned by someone else.
     
  16. 3fiftynine

    3fiftynine Member

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    I want to keep it for 10 years, does anyone know what Tesla will charge for a complete replacement of the battery pack. I saw somewhere that in the US it'll be US$12,000?
     
  17. pinguhk

    pinguhk Member

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    That nice one 1st of the 100.
    yes agree not many moving parts.
    I think the only part that will cost a lot is the air suspension and they tend to ware out after 50k km or after 5 year when the rubber starts to harden. MB and BMW cost over 15k each to replace so don't know what Tesla will charge.
    Also remember no 3ed part company parts so have to go back to Tesla to fix.
    For me I love new gadgets so I plan to keep my to 2021 when I get the car in 2016, unless they bring out a even better looking 1 than the MS.

    - - - Updated - - -

    10 year way too long, that is when the intee starts to fall apart.
    Some how I don't think Tesla are as well built as MB or BMW to last that long.
    eg almost all 2002+ BMW E46 M3 need to fix many panels of the intee because of the glue ageing.
    My BMW 2004 E60 525i started to make many noises inside the car after 5 years of owning.
     
  18. 3fiftynine

    3fiftynine Member

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    I lose charge typically (observed couple of times) 10km overnight (say 10-12 hours), is this normal? Is it something to do with some settings?
     
  19. Vmax

    Vmax Member

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    @3fiftynine, it's the much talked about "vampire drain". Handbook mentions 1% per day. Still need to observe how much my car looses.
     
  20. 3fiftynine

    3fiftynine Member

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    I emailed them and they called back. Told them I lost a lot overnight they said 1-3% is normal and this is percentage of 85kWh, so 3% of 85kWh = 2,550Wh. If I have been, on average, consuming 200Wh/km this equates to 12.75km. However their quoted % is per day, I observed this drop in 12 hours. Anyway I'm been told to keep tracking it, am sure they could also pull in data from telematric.
    [​IMG]
     

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