Using Superchargers for Local Charging

[DCGOO]

Few HK residents commute to work by car at all...

I am currently working in HK this week, and Teslas are EVERYwhere. Not uncommon to see 8 or 10 in a typical 30 minute cab ride. Since very few can charge at home, I don't get it. There are ten (maybe more) supercharger locations in the city, now I know why. Even my local work colleagues say, "Oh yes, Tesla is very popular in HK"

 

[David99]

Good point about the city chargers in Hong Kong, Shanghai and London. They all have 10 Superchargers in the city. It's all locals and local traffic there. Clearly they are not built to be used only by long distance drivers.

 

[swegman]

Several pages back in this thread I read that someone was upset because all they saw were Florida plates at a Supercharger in Florida. Uh, so what. Florida is a long state!

Please read the following statement in that post, which said "I went into the service center to wait for the car to charge (I only needed a 15 minute charge to get to my destination) and spoke with the Tesla personnel. They told me that this particular location is used very very heavily by locals who do not want to charge their cars at home."

For more specific information, I was in the West Palm Beach area to visit a friend that used to work for BMW and recently opened his own BMW repair shop. Three of his BMW co-workers had left BMW to work for Tesla, two as techs and one as the service manager. My friend's BMW shop is located about 2 miles from the Tesla service center (which includes the superchargers), so he introduced me to his former co-workers. During that visit, I commented about how busy the superchargers were, at which point the service manager stated that the superchargers are predominately used by locals that don't want to charge at home.

Yes, Florida is a long state, and I don't doubt that there are people from, say, for example, Jacksonville FL that use the superchargers on occasion to charge in West Palm Beach. However, the service manager made it clear that most of the users are locals that just don't want to incur electricity charges at home for charging their cars.

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

Yes, Florida is a long state, and I don't doubt that there are people from, say, for example, Jacksonville FL that use the superchargers on occasion to charge in West Palm Beach. However, the service manager made it clear that most of the users are locals that just don't w

Sorry, wasn't trying to misstate anything, just too lazy to go back.

My entire point, is that the only people who can effectively judge is Tesla, since they have the data. I just don't want to think every one at a Supercharger is a rich cheapskate. My life is getting shorter and I'm losing my hair!

 

[chriSharek]

Please read the following statement in that post, which said "I went into the service center to wait for the car to charge (I only needed a 15 minute charge to get to my destination) and spoke with the Tesla personnel. They told me that this particular location is used very very heavily by locals who do not want to charge their cars at home."

For more specific information, I was in the West Palm Beach area to visit a friend that used to work for BMW and recently opened his own BMW repair shop. Three of his BMW co-workers had left BMW to work for Tesla, two as techs and one as the service manager. My friend's BMW shop is located about 2 miles from the Tesla service center (which includes the superchargers), so he introduced me to his former co-workers. During that visit, I commented about how busy the superchargers were, at which point the service manager stated that the superchargers are predominately used by locals that don't want to charge at home.

Yes, Florida is a long state, and I don't doubt that there are people from, say, for example, Jacksonville FL that use the superchargers on occasion to charge in West Palm Beach. However, the service manager made it clear that most of the users are locals that just don't want to incur electricity charges at home for charging their cars.

Being a NATIVE Floridian, this is a little embarrassing - especially since we only pay about a dime per kW-hr for electricity in FL. Yes, it's a long state and yes, I'll be using different SCs on my way up to Annapolis in June. Maybe I should put a note on my car that I'm not a rich cheapskate and that I'm not a local using the SCs! Where I live, I'm triangulated by 3 SCs all about 100-150 miles away from my house - to me that was perfect. No need for me to use an SC to charge locally.

 

[garrity]

What would happen to lines and waits at supercharger stations if TESLA set a date stating that new TESLA buyers from that date onward would need to pay 10% (or pick an amount) over actual electrical rates to charge? All TESLA buyers before that date continue to get free charging as promised. Any money earned via charging goes towards maintaining and building more superchargers.

Who would charge at a Supercharger if they could charge for cheaper elsewhere?

 

[bxr140]

They would never do that, because that goes against the mission statement. Tesla will never make you pay at the charger, or pay per use//power/energy unit. They will never give you the option to pay for some calendar period. They will never restrict your consumption. You will either get supercharging when you buy your car (or upgrade later, like the 60s) or you don't. That's how it will be. The only thing that will change is the price. That's the cheapest/easiest solution for them.

Someone earlier referred to the forest through the trees. The real forest is one where charger supply outweighs charger demand. Right now, clogged superchargers is a short term problem, perpetuated by affluent people who are used to getting their way (and complaining when they don't) and other affluent people trying to squeeze every free dime they can. Its only a problem in super high density tesla areas, and only because there's not enough sites yet. Regardless if they underestimated supercharger use, they obviously are working to catch up.

The future is one where, like gas stations, you basically never have to wait. This will be so, because the number of chargers will increase. Charger to vehicle density will stabilize. Battery capacities will increase. Charge times will decrease. Equilibrium will occur. Model 3 will only serve to accelerate this future--Fear not, the math is in your favor.

Put another way, in a few years the supercharging network will be like a properly funded social security plan.

 

[Kipernicus]

actually it is NOT FREE. It is either included in the price of your model S or you paid to have it added.

Actually, this makes things worse, because people get in to the mind set of "well I paid for it, so by golly I'm going to get as much as I can".
Similar to overeating at a buffet.

 

[silentsnow31802]

Wow.... I cannot believe my one sentence comment spiraled into 6 pages of debate.

 

[rjcbox]

Wow.... I cannot believe my one sentence comment spiraled into 6 pages of debate.

Yes, it does that every few months when a new thread is started on this same topic

 

[GKwey]

Wow.... I cannot believe my one sentence comment spiraled into 6 pages of debate.

Because some self-righteous, misguided people are very sensitive to locals supercharging their Tesla for free, especially when they themselves don't live or work close enough to a supercharger to use it conveniently, you provocateur.

I live in west L.A. 2 miles from Westfield Mall Supercharger, a dinner in the mall would also charge my car to full free. I work downtown L.A. 9 miles to Burbank Supercharger, when my car is low I can swing over to the burger store next door for lunch and fill it up. Besides I have lots of free L2 chargers in my area, the closest one is the 5 stalls at the Virginia Avenue Park 1 mile away. I did install a NEMA 14-50 outlet in garage for home charge, however it costs me $0.17 per kWh. So is plugging at home every night best charging option for me? Hard to say since I do have these free charging options available. Since taking delivery less than 3 weeks ago, I have been charging everywhere and have yet settled down with a fixed charging plan. Plugging in at home daily for convenience, 100% supercharging for free or a smart combination of them? Only time will tell.

 

[byan1232]

@GKwey completely agree with you!

 

[garrity]

From Tesla's letter to "frequent user of local Superchargers" :
SC network's intent remains to expand and enhance your long distance travel while providing the flexibility for occasional needed use during local trips.


Standard Feature for Model S and X as listed on Teslamotors.com:
Free long distance travel on the Supercharger network



It took Tesla over 3 years to get to 60K in the USA, Tesla will most likely sell close to 40K in the US in 2016 alone. The numbers of Tesla's sold is increasing rapidly, especially with the Model 3 coming and greater manufacturing capacity.

Extension of the SC network continues to happen, but Tesla is building very few SC's that are in close proximity to existing SC's.

Look at the comments on plugshare.com, those indicating that all stalls are filled are becoming more and more common.

Bottomline: if free charging continues as is, the amount of SC congestion will increase

It would be interesting to see how Tesla and Tesla owners react as waits at SC's become more common. Think about how much it costs Tesla each time someone fills up too.

I want Tesla to succeed wildly. It made sense to charge $2,000.00 for lifetime access and to offer it included in the price for early adopters, but the sooner it stops the better. (Thank you all you early adopters for keeping Tesla afloat) Giving out free electricity to the hopefully millions of Tesla drivers in the future is not good business sense.

SparkEv's blog about free charging sums it up pretty well: chevy spark ev UNOFFICIAL blog: Free charging SUCKS!

I happen to have a Spark EV myself, and anticipate getting a Model 3. There is an SC in the city I live in, right next to some restaurants and shops I like to eat and shop at, I even pass right by it every time I drive to work. I am more than willing to skip free charging close to home, and am willing to pay actual electric rates or even more at a SC, especially if it will cut down the chances of having to wait for a SC when I really need to use one and allows to Tesla to build even more SC's everywhere.

 

[Boatguy]

I don't know what Tesla's strategy is, or how much money they've allocated to build more superchargers or expand new ones. But the "Tragedy of the Commons" tell us that the SC's will increasingly be abused to the detriment of other owners.

I believe there should be an expectation that an owner will have their own means to charge their car and that the SC network is for "touring" away from home. That means a charger may be placed in a location which is "local" to many (e.g., a mall), but "on the road" for me, like L.A. since I live near S.F.

I think it would be perfectly reasonable for Tesla to implement a limitation on "local" charging. Something like your usage of chargers within 50 miles of your home is limited to 300kWh / year, and after that you are charged some outrageous rate for electricity. This would facilitate the situation where someone needs a charge half a dozen times a year for whatever reason in order to get home, but discourage abuse. The price of charging would have to be set so that it is not economically viable to pay at the SC rather than install a charger (or 14-50 outlet) at home.

Some will game the system by changing their address to somewhere away from their actual residence, but such a policy would probably be effective in reducing abuse to a tolerable level while having no negative impact on everyone else.

 

[byan1232]

I know I've said previously that any MS or X owner is able to use supercharging whenever they wanted to HOWEVER...

Think about how much time you have in a day. Do you really think you have the time to go to a super charger every time to charge up just to save a few bucks on electricity?

I live 15 minutes away from a supercharger and still do not have the 50 mins in my day to supercharge (30 minutes driving time and 20 mins charging)

Honestly, I think we are overreacting here...

 

[TexasEV]

It made sense to charge $2,000.00 for lifetime access and to offer it included in the price for early adopters, but the sooner it stops the better. (Thank you all you early adopters for keeping Tesla afloat) .

This misinformation continues to spread three years later. Tesla did not charge $2000 for "lifetime access". The $2000 option for 60s was for the supercharging hardware and software IN THE CAR. The $2000 figure had nothing to do with the cost of supercharger buildout or operation.

 

[MP3Mike]

This misinformation continues to spread three years later. Tesla did not charge $2000 for "lifetime access". The $2000 option for 60s was for the supercharging hardware and software IN THE CAR. The $2000 figure had nothing to do with the cost of supercharger buildout or operation.

I don't think that is entirely accurate. You can enabled just the DC fast charging hardware, for CHAdeMO use, in a 60 for only $1,900, while enabling the DC fast charging hardware and enabling Supercharging costs $2,500. So they are charging $600 for the "lifetime access" to the Supercharger network.

We don't know if they put that $600 towards the Supercharge build out or the cost of electricity used. (Or if they split it.)

 

[stopcrazypp]

I don't think that is entirely accurate. You can enabled just the DC fast charging hardware, for CHAdeMO use, in a 60 for only $1,900, while enabling the DC fast charging hardware and enabling Supercharging costs $2,500. So they are charging $600 for the "lifetime access" to the Supercharger network.

We don't know if they put that $600 towards the Supercharge build out or the cost of electricity used. (Or if they split it.)

I don't think that is accurate. The actual final order says the fee is to enable the hardware and software. In the $1900 CHAdeMO-only case, you enable the hardware and software for CHAdeMO and in the $2500 case you are enabling the hardware and software for supercharging (which uses a different protocol). There is never an statement that guarantees supercharger network access with no restrictions. It is not an access charge and there is no service contract (unlike for example the No Charge to Charge programs administered by Nissan for the Leaf).

 

[MP3Mike]

OK, so they are charging $600 for enabling the Supercharger software to give you access to the Supercharger network. (The hardware is the same between both and you get CHAdeMO charging included when enabling Supercharging.)

I wouldn't be surprised if the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter converted the CHAdeMO protocol into the Supercharger protocol to make it easier for Tesla in only supporting one DC fast charging protocol in the car.

BTW: I never said that they guaranteed access with no restrictions, but the pages does just say "When Supercharging is enabled, Model S drivers can charge for no additional cost at any of Tesla’s expanding network of 120 kW Superchargers." and that doesn't hint at any restrictions. And the pages that it links to has a FAQ: "Q: How much does it cost to use the Superchargers? A: Supercharging is free for the life of Model S, once the Supercharger option is enabled." Again, they say "free for the life of Model S", no restrictions mentioned. Seems pretty clear to me.

 

[scaesare]

OK, so they are charging $600 for enabling the Supercharger software to give you access to the Supercharger network. (The hardware is the same between both and you get CHAdeMO charging included when enabling Supercharging.)

I wouldn't be surprised if the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter converted the CHAdeMO protocol into the Supercharger protocol to make it easier for Tesla in only supporting one DC fast charging protocol in the car.

BTW: I never said that they guaranteed access with no restrictions, but the pages does just say "When Supercharging is enabled, Model S drivers can charge for no additional cost at any of Tesla’s expanding network of 120 kW Superchargers." and that doesn't hint at any restrictions. And the pages that it links to has a FAQ: "Q: How much does it cost to use the Superchargers? A: Supercharging is free for the life of Model S, once the Supercharger option is enabled." Again, they say "free for the life of Model S", no restrictions mentioned. Seems pretty clear to me.

People looove to ignore the other content on that page:

Where are the current and upcoming Supercharger Stations?
Superchargers are used for long distance travel, conveniently located along the most popular routes in North America, Europe and Asia.