That's on existing 60s that didn't include the $2000 option when the car was new. It was $2000 when the car was ordered or $2500 later, and that was long before there was a CHAdeMO adapter.
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I didn't bother to read the answer to that question because the question wasn't relevant to the information I was looking for, and that part of the answer doesn't pertain to the question is in purportedly answering. (I didn't care where the Superchargers were.)
How does that change anything? Here is how it appears that the price breaks down based on the information we have:
Enable DC fast charging hardware: $1,400
Enable Supercharger network access: $600
Change surcharge fee for ordering after delivery: $500
Had CHAdeMO been available would Tesla have allowed someone to enable the DC fast charging hardware for $1,400 when they ordered a 60? Who knows, maybe they would only do it after that fact with the $500 change fee.
And what if someone paid $1,900 to enable the DC fast charging hardware for CHAdeMO, and later they decide that they, or the next owner, wanted Supercharger access? Will Tesla charge $600, $1,100, or $2,500? I think it would be great if someone tested that out. (Maybe they would charge $2,500 and refund the $1,900 since that would fit within the current ordering system...)
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
It says it is free, but it doesn't say it is unlimited. That means Tesla is free to add restrictions at any time (similar to how they have done so for servicing for example).
What I am saying is you did not pay $600 for Tesla for a unlimited access service contract; it is simply to enable the hardware and software. To use the same analogy: those that signed up for Tesla's service contract (where there were terms clearly written and Tesla guaranteed) was able to avoid the mileage charges for Ranger service, but those who did not weren't able to.
Basically, my point was that you have no legal recourse if Tesla started adding restrictions related to long distance since you have no service contract and it doesn't violate false advertising (they only advertised free and made long distance very clear from the start).
@GKwey:
I would be very interested to see how your charging habits play out over the next couple of months. I suspect the novelty of charging "everywhere but home" (my language) will wear off eventually and you will relegate yourself to Level 2 charging mostly to places where your car is sitting more than a few hours at a time. While it is nice to gain 30 or 40 miles of range while you are sitting down to a meal at a restaurant, or running errands around town, there is nothing like waking up in the morning with a full "tank of gas," even if it cost you roughly $2 for a 10 hr charge.
obviously if there is a supercharger at said restaurant or place where you are running an errand, then yes the free supercharger looks much more attractive than charging at home. but it all depends on your routine and how convenient each charging option really is.
Nonethless it's there.
Just about all of the collateral Tesla has put out, both web-based as well as public comments, have included the context that they are intended to enable long-distance travel and road trips.
A lot of cherry picking of select phrases out of context has been used to justify using them for things like not paying for your own daily driving needs.
It's clear that's never been Tesla's intent for people who could reasonably provide their own charging. JB has commented on going the extra mile and building even more superchargers within urban limts for those in apartments etc... but that context is still there.
The fact that Tesla classified some people as "abusing" the intent, and even sent them notes, makes it clear they aren't intended as a "free fuel free-for-all", but a lot of people seem to ignore all that context that doesn't suit their argument.
I think we can settling this topic once and for all after Tesla's latest announcement.
"In addition, many sites will be built further off the highway to allow local Tesla drivers to charge quickly when needed, with the goal of making charging ubiquitous in urban centers."
"In addition, many sites will be built further off the highway to allow local Tesla drivers to charge quickly when needed, with the goal of making charging ubiquitous in urban centers."
I think both extremes are wrong.
Charging at home really should be the norm.
Several EV owners can get away with charging once a week. Maybe twice a week on rare weeks they need to drive a little more. They might have an L2 charger a few miles from home, and have a means to leave the car at the charger and get home/back to get the car when its done. Perhaps using a folding bike (not a universal solution for sure). Be creative.
Charging at work is one alternative. Certainly not universal.
Once EVs are a little more common, supermarkets / malls / restaurants / ... might have an interest in offering L2 charging (free or not).
I firmly believe that M3/MY/Bolt/2018 LEAF and other serious EVs will drive an explosion in EVs on the roads which will create the critical mass for charging everywhere. It might take a few more years though.
In neighborhoods where there are lots of Tesla owners that can't charge at home, perhaps L2 chargers can be installed in some key places. If an L2 charger is a 10 minute walk from your home, and you only need to charge 2 or 3x a week, would that prevent you from using superchargers for your routine charging ?
Remember, L2 chargers are cheap and easy to install. Tesla gives them away for free. The issue is figuring out where to install them and having the justification to get them from Tesla. And figuring out how to pay for the electrons.
henderrj
Active Member
I wouldn't want to leave my Tesla sitting out where I can't watch it and where I don't know if somebody's going to molest it! But, I do think your ideas have some merit. Just not sure how well it would work.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I should note, even very early on, Tesla said that local supercharging was fine for those without home charging.
The change in position for local charging in general is that now that local supercharging is paid for and not free (other than some cars grandfathered in), this acts as a disincentive to those that do not need the charge, plus it is now sustainable financially for Tesla (local charging generates roughly 10x the demand as long distance driving).
Personally, I advocated for all urban superchargers to be renamed different and be paid (regardless of grandfather status) and then leave the long distance ones free, but I guess Tesla decided it was simpler to just go with their current scheme.
Missile Toad
MSLR Wht/Blk/19 | OD 6/10/21 | RN11512
@stopcrazypp I like your idea to take the urban SuperChargers "off the table" of the all you can eat buffet that the Classic Tesla owners get (even though I belong to that class). At some point, Tesla will have to federate/franchise/spin-off the SuperCharger network, since it could create a weird conflict of interest. Doing so accomplishes two things,
1) allows more sophisticated business models to develop around the charging sites (think car-washes; mini-markets; staff to come out and wash the bugs off);
2) it prevents Tesla management from charging their largely-captive audience extortionate pricing, as you would expect a monopolist to do.
Incidentally, I would think a lot of restaurants could grow their business by taking a more 'partnership' role in Supercharger deployment. The guys at Collin Street Bakery (which I think cites three Texas Superchargers) could give better data on that -- as they at least give free drinks to people who show their Tesla fob.
1) allows more sophisticated business models to develop around the charging sites (think car-washes; mini-markets; staff to come out and wash the bugs off);
2) it prevents Tesla management from charging their largely-captive audience extortionate pricing, as you would expect a monopolist to do.
Incidentally, I would think a lot of restaurants could grow their business by taking a more 'partnership' role in Supercharger deployment. The guys at Collin Street Bakery (which I think cites three Texas Superchargers) could give better data on that -- as they at least give free drinks to people who show their Tesla fob.
AndrewTX
Member
I suspect this will come with time. CSB seems forward looking in this regard. I was pleasantly surprised the first time I stopped at the Corsicana SC (my avatar picture) and noticed the billboard offering the complimentary beverage. I don't know why Buccee's hasn't jumped on this.
There's another one that does this. I forget the restaurant (Texas Steakhouse maybe?) at Lumberton, NC. I don't remember the promo, but they plastered it on the Supercharger cabinet. Something like 25% off an appetizer, or something.
jchag
Member
Never thought I would see you change your stance, even begrudgingly!
I've always been baffled by those who pay $100K for a car but are too cheap to pay a few dollars for electrons to power it and causing a major inconvenience for others passing thru town who have no choice of where to charge.
There should be a cost equivalent to charging at home (or more) when charging within xx-miles of home... maybe using some exponentially increasing scale.
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