USS Retrofit (Place your bets)

[GlynG]

With USS, at the end of the day if Tesla don't manage to get a decent parking system running there is nothing to stop anyone fitting a USS system. They are cheap to buy, could buy two and fit 4 sensors on the front and rear bumpers. The bumpers are a piece of cake to take off, the markings for sensor position are there, drill, fit and route the wiring into the car and hide the control boxes in the centre console - one feed from the reversing light and its job done - you will have a completely independent audio parking system. Of course you could always fit the camera feed type of USS too, bit more work to do and have a screen showing the front and rear.

Its not the end of the world I guess to wait and see how Tesla get on with their proposed Vision remedy - and we know they have to release this pretty soon because the current software has also disabled the auto park feature and Summon - and there is no way they would get away with this - especially in the litigation kingdom of the USA

For me, this isn't about the USS at all, I do find it useful in a few situations but when I'm parking I use the door mirrors - and turn my head if I need a better view, I've never used the camera to reverse, never took any notice of the little lines that predict where the wheels will go because a screen picture is 2D - so distance isn't something our brain can calculate from it - its needs 3D - which is what the mirrors provide.
I've never in two years ever seen the parking symbol on screen but I've never looked for it so I don't know what my car would park like if left to its software - I just read what others say and it seems its very very slow - but for those who perhaps prefer the car to park itself - it should be able to do it.

My gripe about the USS is that prior to having a system to take over, Tesla decided to remove the working system and left owners with nothing but a promise and they feel that's acceptable - well I don't.
Its just another example of Tesla, or should I say Elon's arrogance - They keep removing stuff and keep making statements that the removal of that stuff wont affect your enjoyment of the car or its functionality - well accept for only a very brief period of time because we have a much better system about to be implemented - but either the update doesn't come in a timely manner or the update fails to fix the issue and maybe something else gets screwed up that wasn't envisaged.

I'm one of those that was fooled into believing FSD was a possibility - but as updates have come and gone the functionality of my car is worse than two years ago - a lot worse. I still think my car is wonderful though to drive but its nowhere near as smart as I was led to believe prior to purchase, the car hasn't disappointed me - Tesla have, or rather my expectations have been raised, my natural excitement stimulated and I'm disappointed when the promises don't come to fruition.

 

[Arrosto]

With USS, at the end of the day if Tesla don't manage to get a decent parking system running there is nothing to stop anyone fitting a USS system. They are cheap to buy, could buy two and fit 4 sensors on the front and rear bumpers. The bumpers are a piece of cake to take off, the markings for sensor position are there, drill, fit and route the wiring into the car and hide the control boxes in the centre console - one feed from the reversing light and its job done - you will have a completely independent audio parking system. Of course you could always fit the camera feed type of USS too, bit more work to do and have a screen showing the front and rear.

Its not the end of the world I guess to wait and see how Tesla get on with their proposed Vision remedy - and we know they have to release this pretty soon because the current software has also disabled the auto park feature and Summon - and there is no way they would get away with this - especially in the litigation kingdom of the USA

For me, this isn't about the USS at all, I do find it useful in a few situations but when I'm parking I use the door mirrors - and turn my head if I need a better view, I've never used the camera to reverse, never took any notice of the little lines that predict where the wheels will go because a screen picture is 2D - so distance isn't something our brain can calculate from it - its needs 3D - which is what the mirrors provide.
I've never in two years ever seen the parking symbol on screen but I've never looked for it so I don't know what my car would park like if left to its software - I just read what others say and it seems its very very slow - but for those who perhaps prefer the car to park itself - it should be able to do it.

My gripe about the USS is that prior to having a system to take over, Tesla decided to remove the working system and left owners with nothing but a promise and they feel that's acceptable - well I don't.
Its just another example of Tesla, or should I say Elon's arrogance - They keep removing stuff and keep making statements that the removal of that stuff wont affect your enjoyment of the car or its functionality - well accept for only a very brief period of time because we have a much better system about to be implemented - but either the update doesn't come in a timely manner or the update fails to fix the issue and maybe something else gets screwed up that wasn't envisaged.

I'm one of those that was fooled into believing FSD was a possibility - but as updates have come and gone the functionality of my car is worse than two years ago - a lot worse. I still think my car is wonderful though to drive but its nowhere near as smart as I was led to believe prior to purchase, the car hasn't disappointed me - Tesla have, or rather my expectations have been raised, my natural excitement stimulated and I'm disappointed when the promises don't come to fruition.

Feeling more or less the same ...

Received my MY FWD end of October, was excited.
I was understood about missing USS and confirmed the order even if disappointed, due to the need to have a car for daily activities and work (renting would have been expensive, to take time until features really arrive).
I don't miss the USS for parking (I don't need them at all).
I miss the fun (that could have been) of using Summon and Smart Summon.
I unfortunately believe that without USS there's a blind spot in front that can't be covered by cameras and that's a pity, because a simple camera on the front was enough to cover it.
I've evaluated to buy a used 2021 (or early 2022) MY with USS to exchange "on par" with mine, loosing 1 year of car life and 8-12'000 km, but these models have old cameras ... therefore the new Vision (when and if it comes) may be somehow ... limited?

So, surely enjoying my MY 2023, but there's some bad taste in background ... some disappointment, recently grown by the hard price cut that made me actually waste 7k ... in order to save rental costs .... sob

 

[Durzel]

With USS, at the end of the day if Tesla don't manage to get a decent parking system running there is nothing to stop anyone fitting a USS system. They are cheap to buy, could buy two and fit 4 sensors on the front and rear bumpers. The bumpers are a piece of cake to take off, the markings for sensor position are there, drill, fit and route the wiring into the car and hide the control boxes in the centre console - one feed from the reversing light and its job done - you will have a completely independent audio parking system. Of course you could always fit the camera feed type of USS too, bit more work to do and have a screen showing the front and rear.
...

Would you honestly want to keep the car if you're having to hack basic functionality like USS into it? I mean you're technically correct - you could retrofit third party parking sensors, and it would work, but if it were me I'd be irritated just thinking about it every time I got in the car. Surely there comes a point where you think enough's enough and simply buy another car?

As for the poll - I voted "No retrofit, software & vision" even though I think it's the wrong move, simply because I feel like Tesla is obstinate about admitting failure. Having said that - HD Radar is apparently coming back, and they'll spin that as a positive somehow.

 

[Tony Hoyle]

Sure you could buy a basic cheap car and add all the bits you want. People do.. but doing that to a Tesla seems just wrong.

 

[GlynG]

Would you honestly want to keep the car if you're having to hack basic functionality like USS into it? I mean you're technically correct - you could retrofit third party parking sensors, and it would work, but if it were me I'd be irritated just thinking about it every time I got in the car. Surely there comes a point where you think enough's enough and simply buy another car?

As for the poll - I voted "No retrofit, software & vision" even though I think it's the wrong move, simply because I feel like Tesla is obstinate about admitting failure. Having said that - HD Radar is apparently coming back, and they'll spin that as a positive somehow.

Don't get me wrong, I am more than a little irritated with Tesla and I also feel for those who were screwed with the price drop after being incentivised to pick up their cars early for some free supercharging - Tesla should do the right thing and all that had a January delivery date should keep the free supercharging and get refunded the amount their cars were reduced by - would also go someway to restoring some faith in the marque - but they wont.

I don't think anyone should have to hack their car to simply get what was promised and perhaps at some point in the future Vision will work perfectly and we will think how much of a mountain we made of a molehill - but it is an option just like I opted to add power boot and Frunk along with a lot of other mods and additions - I'm happy I personalised my car and I genuinely think my car is much better than the current Model 3 spec, I have what i consider superior to the latest model with the chrome, the soft feel door cards, the data ports, the much better centre console, the passenger lumber support - even though that has never been used - I like it being there - they initially fitted stuff not only because they viewed it as essential to getting the car to where they wanted the functionality - like the radar but the lumber support as a nice little extra, the sensor on the old console flap that measures how hard to push it down - and the little message on screen that indicates to close gently - little stuff like that that just made it feel a more rounded car and an excess beyond having a car that is adequate.

I was one that voted not to purchase another Tesla - and I wont because for this money I wouldn't like to spend that amount and have what i consider less of a car - and to others exactly the same thing but newer, I've only ever bought the same car again after visual appearance facelifts and added functions - like the three Granada Scorpio's I had (Not including Fords last version the pig ugly Ford Scorpio)

I'm keeping my current car for the foreseeable future because i love it, the shape, the drive, the ride and that instant acceleration, no road tax and no servicing and nothing has ever gone wrong with it.
Plus there is a large dollop of obstinance within me - I feel sure that as an FSD equipped owner that Tesla will eventually accept current hardware cant provide even rudimentary FSD and they will have to upgrade my car with the new cameras, the new radar etc all free of charge - I'm not banking on that but just don't want to let them off if there is a chance and its me purely being awkward.

 

[Arrosto]

Would you honestly want to keep the car if you're having to hack basic functionality like USS into it? I mean you're technically correct - you could retrofit third party parking sensors, and it would work, but if it were me I'd be irritated just thinking about it every time I got in the car. Surely there comes a point where you think enough's enough and simply buy another car?

As for the poll - I voted "No retrofit, software & vision" even though I think it's the wrong move, simply because I feel like Tesla is obstinate about admitting failure. Having said that - HD Radar is apparently coming back, and they'll spin that as a positive somehow.

What is in fact this "HD radar" ? A newer version of USS (that could retrofit on Teslas withtout USS) ?

 

[robbieduncan]

What is in fact this "HD radar" ? A newer version of USS (that could retrofit on Teslas withtout USS) ?

No, its totally separate. Last year they removed radar (months before removing USS) and moved to relying on vision only for cruise/autopilot. But at the time Elon said something about seeing the value in HD Radar. Ever since people have been waiting for HD Radar to be revealed

 

[Durzel]

Tesla Is Adding Radar Back To Cars Next Year: Docs

Seems like Tesla Vision hasn't worked out quite how the company hoped.

jalopnik.com

FCC communications suggest it could be coming back as early as this month. It is believed it will coincide with the release of HW4.0 (5MP cameras, heated B-pillar cameras, etc)

 

[Whyone]

Surely there comes a point where you think enough's enough and simply buy another car?

Just two months in, that's certainly where I am heading....

 

[Drew57]

Below is the text from a link Tesla emailed me today following a lengthy reply to one I sent them a couple of weeks ago detailing various examples of the increasingly shoddy and offhand treatment they appear to be inflicting on their customers. To be fair, 'Emma C' has taken the time to reply to every issue I raised, acknowledging & thoughtfully replying to each of my criticisms of the company so I don't feel it's right to publicly share her actual reply.

(I hadn't seen this - maybe others already have?)

Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision | Tesla Support United Kingdom

Tesla Vision Update:​

Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision​

Safety is at the core of our design and engineering decisions. In 2021, we began our transition to Tesla Vision by removing radar from Model 3 and Model Y, followed by Model S and Model X in 2022. Today, in most regions around the globe, these vehicles now rely on Tesla Vision, our camera-based Autopilot system.
Since launch, we have continued to make incremental improvements in both feature parity and safety. Compared to radar-equipped vehicles, Model 3 and Model Y with Tesla Vision have either maintained or improved their active safety ratings in the US and Europe, and perform better in pedestrian automatic emergency braking (AEB) intervention.
Today, we are taking the next step in Tesla Vision by removing ultrasonic sensors (USS) from Model 3 and Model Y. We will continue this rollout with Model 3 and Model Y, globally, over the next few months, followed by Model S and Model X throughout 2023.
Along with the removal of USS, we have simultaneously launched our vision-based occupancy network – currently used in Full Self-Driving (FSD) Beta – to replace the inputs generated by USS. With today’s software, this approach gives Autopilot high-definition spatial positioning, longer range visibility and ability to identify and differentiate between objects. As with many Tesla features, our occupancy network will continue to improve rapidly over time.
For a short period of time during this transition, Tesla Vision vehicles that are not equipped with USS will be delivered with some features temporarily limited or inactive, including:

• Park Assist: alerts you of surrounding objects when the vehicle is traveling <5 mph.
• Autopark: automatically maneuvers into parallel or perpendicular parking spaces.
• Summon: manually moves your vehicle forward or in reverse via the Tesla app.
• Smart Summon: navigates your vehicle to your location or location of your choice via the Tesla app.

In the near future, once these features achieve performance parity to today’s vehicles, they will be restored via a series of over-the-air software updates. All other available Autopilot, Enhanced Autopilot and Full Self-Driving capability features will be active at delivery, depending on order configuration.
Given the incremental improvements already achieved with Tesla Vision, and our roadmap of future Autopilot improvements and abilities, we are confident that this is the best strategy for the future of Autopilot and the safety of our customers.

 

[Whyone]

Below is the text from a link Tesla emailed me today following a lengthy reply to one I sent them a couple of weeks ago detailing various examples of the increasingly shoddy and offhand treatment they appear to be inflicting on their customers. To be fair, 'Emma C' has taken the time to reply to every issue I raised, acknowledging & thoughtfully replying to each of my criticisms of the company so I don't feel it's right to publicly share her actual reply.

(I hadn't seen this - maybe others already have?)

Tesla Vision Update: Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision | Tesla Support United Kingdom

Tesla Vision Update:​

Replacing Ultrasonic Sensors with Tesla Vision​

Safety is at the core of our design and engineering decisions. In 2021, we began our transition to Tesla Vision by removing radar from Model 3 and Model Y, followed by Model S and Model X in 2022. Today, in most regions around the globe, these vehicles now rely on Tesla Vision, our camera-based Autopilot system.
Since launch, we have continued to make incremental improvements in both feature parity and safety. Compared to radar-equipped vehicles, Model 3 and Model Y with Tesla Vision have either maintained or improved their active safety ratings in the US and Europe, and perform better in pedestrian automatic emergency braking (AEB) intervention.
Today, we are taking the next step in Tesla Vision by removing ultrasonic sensors (USS) from Model 3 and Model Y. We will continue this rollout with Model 3 and Model Y, globally, over the next few months, followed by Model S and Model X throughout 2023.
Along with the removal of USS, we have simultaneously launched our vision-based occupancy network – currently used in Full Self-Driving (FSD) Beta – to replace the inputs generated by USS. With today’s software, this approach gives Autopilot high-definition spatial positioning, longer range visibility and ability to identify and differentiate between objects. As with many Tesla features, our occupancy network will continue to improve rapidly over time.
For a short period of time during this transition, Tesla Vision vehicles that are not equipped with USS will be delivered with some features temporarily limited or inactive, including:

• Park Assist: alerts you of surrounding objects when the vehicle is traveling <5 mph.
• Autopark: automatically maneuvers into parallel or perpendicular parking spaces.
• Summon: manually moves your vehicle forward or in reverse via the Tesla app.
• Smart Summon: navigates your vehicle to your location or location of your choice via the Tesla app.

In the near future, once these features achieve performance parity to today’s vehicles, they will be restored via a series of over-the-air software updates. All other available Autopilot, Enhanced Autopilot and Full Self-Driving capability features will be active at delivery, depending on order configuration.
Given the incremental improvements already achieved with Tesla Vision, and our roadmap of future Autopilot improvements and abilities, we are confident that this is the best strategy for the future of Autopilot and the safety of our customers.

The blue text was one of the first things the Tesla Customer Abuse team tried to fob me off with back in November.

 

[mylapore]

I asked the SA who came yesterday for a mobile service about getting a USS retrofit. He said it's highly unlikely as it would be very involved with installing the sensors and doing additional work with calibration and software and firmware changes. Also didn't sound optimistic about getting the Tesla vision anytime soon. So nothing good.

 

[Mrklaw]

at least with the 3 for me, I don’t have the visibility I’d like by looking over my shoulder so I do rely on the cameras and wing mirrors more than I’d like - so the USS are really useful for that.

 

[Mrklaw]

Today, we are taking the next step in Tesla Vision by removing ultrasonic sensors (USS) from Model 3 and Model Y. We will continue this rollout with Model 3 and Model Y, globally, over the next few months, followed by Model S and Model X throughout 2023.
Along with the removal of USS, we have simultaneously launched our vision-based occupancy network – currently used in Full Self-Driving (FSD) Beta – to replace the inputs generated by USS. With today’s software, this approach gives Autopilot high-definition spatial positioning, longer range visibility and ability to identify and differentiate between objects. As with many Tesla features, our occupancy network will continue to improve rapidly over time.
For a short period of time during this transition, Tesla Vision vehicles that are not equipped with USS will be delivered with some features temporarily limited or inactive, including:

• Park Assist: alerts you of surrounding objects when the vehicle is traveling <5 mph.
• Autopark: automatically maneuvers into parallel or perpendicular parking spaces.
• Summon: manually moves your vehicle forward or in reverse via the Tesla app.
• Smart Summon: navigates your vehicle to your location or location of your choice via the Tesla app.

- those bulleted items don’t mention the simple warnings provided while manually parking. And no mention is made of that in the rest of the response. What are we supposed to expect for that?

The suggestion is that we have the new vision based occupancy - they say its launched simultaneously with the removal of USS. So is that in all cars outside of the US? only in non-USS cars outside of the US? As far as we can tell there hasn’t been much evidence of that, no updates to visualisations we see.

The comment about occupancy improving over time suggests at least to me that it doesn’t yet cover manual parking. What *is* the behaviour for non-USS cars right now outside of the US? literally silence - any indications at all - strange visualisations showing a hedge as a van with vague positioning wobbling around?

It seems to use lots of words but not say very much?

 

[Drew57]

It seems to use lots of words but not say very much?

Yes & as you will see from part of the email I sent them, I have very low expectations of a resolution...

"....I recently purchased my second Tesla, a red Model Y LR. Lack of Ultrasonic sensors had never been communicated to me by yourselves and such an omission is extremely disappointing. Based on prior experience and especially with utterances from your CEO I have absolutely no faith that there will be a comparable solution to replace such a basic feature of almost every other car brand regardless of price point".

 

[LiamPope]

- those bulleted items don’t mention the simple warnings provided while manually parking. And no mention is made of that in the rest of the response. What are we supposed to expect for that?

The suggestion is that we have the new vision based occupancy - they say its launched simultaneously with the removal of USS. So is that in all cars outside of the US? only in non-USS cars outside of the US? As far as we can tell there hasn’t been much evidence of that, no updates to visualisations we see.

The comment about occupancy improving over time suggests at least to me that it doesn’t yet cover manual parking. What *is* the behaviour for non-USS cars right now outside of the US? literally silence - any indications at all - strange visualisations showing a hedge as a van with vague positioning wobbling around?

It seems to use lots of words but not say very much?

That's the PR blurb from back in October. The simple warnings when manually parking is Park Assist, so it is mentioned. The current behaviour of non USS cars is indeed silence. A top down picture of the car with no lines, distance values or beepy beeps.

I didn't notice at the time, or just forgot, the bit about simultaneously having released the occupancy network. That's interesting. Wonder what they mean? Perhaps it's taking USS out of the equation for blind spot warning and lane change? Or had that already happened?

 

[E46M3]

if you do have a USS equipped Tesla, don't you lose that once you do OTA update? so you just force it to not update?

 

[robbieduncan]

if you do have a USS equipped Tesla, don't you lose that once you do OTA update? so you just force it to not update?

Not yet at least.

 

[Jason71]

if you do have a USS equipped Tesla, don't you lose that once you do OTA update? so you just force it to not update?

they had better ******* not!