Very poor customer service at Tesla Colorado delivery center -anecdotal story

[Sandollars]

Even Tesla is not perfect in the hiring process.

Constant daily reminders by leadership that "without customers, we don't have a business" is a prudent practice.

I have visited 2 of the "galleries" and 1 delivery/service center during my wait and I have yet to meet a bad egg.

 

[BrokerDon]

If GM/Nissan/BMW etc products were worth MSRP, they could sell them that way.

Some vehicles the major auto manufacturers sell ARE sold at MSRP or higher... Typically new models or limited edition vehicles. When I bought my 2006 Corvette Z06 new in late 2005 every SoCal dealer had a wait list of buyers paying up to $20,000 over sticker price to get one because they were still an amazing performance deal vs. the "supercars" sold by Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. Same situation when the H2 Hummers first came out... and Ford Raptors now.

OTOH their regular "mainstream" vehicles are typically discounted or rebated to move them when demand is sluggish. Think Fiat 500e lease for $99 a month.

YMMV

 

[jelloslug]

Some vehicles the major auto manufacturers sell ARE sold at MSRP or higher... Typically new models or limited edition vehicles. When I bought my 2006 Corvette Z06 new in late 2005 every SoCal dealer had a wait list of buyers paying up to $20,000 over sticker price to get one because they were still an amazing performance deal vs. the "supercars" sold by Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. Same situation when the H2 Hummers first came out... and Ford Raptors now.

OTOH their regular "mainstream" vehicles are typically discounted or rebated to move them when demand is sluggish. Think Fiat 500e lease for $99 a month.

YMMV

That is, by far, the exception, not the rule. For every Raptor and Z06 sold at a premium, there are tens of thousands of F-150s and Malibus sold for 15% off of sticker.

 

[BrokerDon]

That is, by far, the exception, not the rule. For every Raptor and Z06 sold at a premium, there are tens of thousands of F-150s and Malibus sold for 15% off of sticker.

EXACTLY

Raptor and Z06 are limited production vehicles like P100DL which typically sell at a premium.

F-150 and Mailbu are "generic" regular production vehicles which typically sell below MSRP ("sticker")

Point is most if not all auto manufacturers have vehicles they sell at MSRP or higher.

Nissan GT-R and Ford GT another example... as is the new 2017 Range Rover Autobiography The Top Reason Why Land Rover Just Made This $200,000 SUV, Its Most Expensive One Ever

 

[jelloslug]

EXACTLY

Raptor and Z06 are limited production vehicles like P100DL which typically sell at a premium.

F-150 and Mailbu are "generic" regular production vehicles which typically sell below MSRP ("sticker")

Point is most if not all auto manufacturers have vehicles they sell at MSRP or higher.

Nissan GT-R and Ford GT another example... as is the new 2017 Range Rover Autobiography The Top Reason Why Land Rover Just Made This $200,000 SUV, Its Most Expensive One Ever

All new Tesla cars sell at the price on the sticker, no matter if it's a base model or fully loaded. The only exceptions would be loaners or inventory cars that have feature sets that are no longer available.

 

[BrokerDon]

All new Tesla cars sell at the price on the sticker, no matter if it's a base model or fully loaded. The only exceptions would be loaners or inventory cars that have feature sets that are no longer available.

Yup. We bought our March 2015 built P85D as an "inventory" car in late July 2015... at a discount.

Our Tesla Owner Associate was absolutely awesome !!! Also the Delivery and Customer Service personnel at our local Costa Mesa Tesla Service Center have been spectacular... unlike the original OP's experience.

 

[Solarman004]

While the "customer is always right" is a terrible expression (because it's mostly false), you can't have sales people or customer advisors or whatever you want to call them getting their rocks off by arguing with your customers, especially when they are wrong and giving out bad info!

I don't even know if I want a damn Tesla know if this is how they operate.

@voip-ninja , I hope your experience is an anomaly. I've been using the Denver store and SC since 2016 and always had great experiences.
That said, your experience is real, and I think the Littleton manager would appreciate constructive, calm feedback.

 

[voip-ninja]

All new Tesla cars sell at the price on the sticker, no matter if it's a base model or fully loaded. The only exceptions would be loaners or inventory cars that have feature sets that are no longer available.

That's only true if cash is paid. Tesla has other ways of discounting their cars such as paying banks who they do their leases through to buy down lease rates, which they do...

You can thumbs down it all you want @jelloslug but Tesla incentivizing leases is a real thing and works out similarly to manufacturers who simply offer factory rebates.

 

[voip-ninja]

@voip-ninja , I hope your experience is an anomaly. I've been using the Denver store and SC since 2016 and always had great experiences.
That said, your experience is real, and I think the Littleton manager would appreciate constructive, calm feedback.

See my earlier post, we have spoken and things are fine now.

 

[jelloslug]

That's only true if cash is paid. Tesla has other ways of discounting their cars such as paying banks who they do their leases through to buy down lease rates, which they do...

You can thumbs down it all you want @jelloslug but Tesla incentivizing leases is a real thing.

How you pay for the car has nothing to do with the discounts that Tesla offers on inventory or loaner cars.

 

[voip-ninja]

How you pay for the car has nothing to do with the discounts that Tesla offers on inventory or loaner cars.

Well since you seem to want to really argue this point.....

As far as I know, when Tesla offers a .99 APR on Model S and X, they are paying for it and this is/was not restricted to demo vehicles. Even if Tesla does a ton of business with a bank, they are not getting 72 month car loans for .99%, so they are paying for this. Tesla chooses to eat a grand or two in finance charges, other manufacturers might do factory rebates or what-have-you.

For reference;

Model 3 financing interest rate | Tesla

Carl Thompson | August 21, 2017
@GetLib:
"Tesla offers 0.99% for model S & X buyers"

Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't know that.

But to offer a 0.99% means that Tesla is _losing_ money on that financing. Perhaps they're willing to do that on the S and X which have extremely high profit margins but they may not be willing to do it on the Model 3 which almost certainly will have lower (or negative) margins at least initially (and probably forever). But I'd love it if they do!

Carl

GetLib | August 21, 2017
@carl Thompson Tesla doesn't actually finance it, they partner with a finance company, but they likely incentivize the partner financially somehow.

@andy.connor.e:
"How does a company lose money if they charge interest?"

Speaking as someone who works in banking, banks (and finance companies) lose money on loans (that charge interest) all of the time. First and foremost, there is a cost of funds. The money companies lend people needs to come from somewhere. Generally, it's not just sitting on the balance sheet waiting to be used. When that is the case, Carl T is right, it's the opportunity cost for that money. What other kind of investment within the same risk class* (you could use the U.S. treasury rate, but a car loan is generally riskier than that) would that money earn?

When you don't have the money that is readily available, as is the case with all major banks, they use their superior credit rating to borrow money. Because large banks are more credit worthy than you, they can borrow at a better rate, and therefore still make a profit by lending to you in some cases. Auto loans, being secured by collateral, are currently ~3% at a fixed rate. Generally, even strongly rated companies can only borrow at 5% at a fixed rate, so it costs them money.

Banks make money elsewhere by offering different products (ranging from traditional banking products to investment banking products).

Car companies make money by selling you the car (and all of the extras). Generally, car companies will gladly take a hit on financing to make the sale. The 0% (or 0.99% in the Model S/X case) impacts the margin on each car, but it is used as a tactic to move inventory or boost sales. As you've seen by the recent sales tactics in some locales, Tesla is using it to boost sales of its premium vehicles and shorten the line for the model 3.

We all know that the margin on the S/X isn't huge, so the fact that they have created a 1.75% gap in financing cost tells you just how much they want to minimize manufacturing hell. It might also tell you how tight the Model 3 margins are right now.

 

[Solarman004]

See my earlier post, we have spoken and things are fine now.

Sorry, I missed the post from Conner and your reply. Glad it all worked out.

 

[jelloslug]

Well since you seem to want to really argue this point.....

As far as I know, when Tesla offers a .99 APR on Model S and X, they are paying for it and this is/was not restricted to demo vehicles. Even if Tesla does a ton of business with a bank, they are not getting 72 month car loans for .99%, so they are paying for this. Tesla chooses to eat a grand or two in finance charges, other manufacturers might do factory rebates or what-have-you.

For reference;

Model 3 financing interest rate | Tesla

None of that has anything to do with the selling price of demo or inventory cars.

 

[Electricious]

I once had to explain to a loan officer how amortizations work.

Good for you because if you don't understand it, someone will take advantage of you. When we closed our mortgage, I knew what our rate and term would be and I calculated all our loan numbers and amortization schedule on my own and verified that with the loan docs.

Buying a car or whatever, you should always understand what you are buying and how any calculations are made...

 

[Shock-On-T]

Well I had the 2nd poor experience with a Tesla store and this one was quite a bit worse than the first, so I feel I need to vent my spleen a bit.

I get that it's just the actions of one employee, but having been in customer service myself for a very long time in a previous life I find this kind of thing inexcusable.

My wife and preschool aged son and I thought it would be fun to drive by the Tesla delivery/service center on Broadway in Littleton CO on the off chance a Model 3 was there, such as a customer car awaiting delivery, a car charging, etc.

We drove around the lot kind of disappointed and then spotted a single Model 3 charging.... so we got out to very briefly look at it. The car was filthy, but my wife got a bit excited since it's the first time she's gotten to see the version I've had on pre-order since day one.

My son was cold and wanted to "look at more cars" so we decided to step into the showroom. As we walked in a young sales person asks what brings us in and I mention that we just stopped in to see if there was a Model 3 awaiting delivery just so we could see what it looked like.

At this point he rolls his eyes and in a huff says "we don't have any demonstrator cars you can look at and we don't expect we will have any until 2019".

Wow, okay there bud. I know thousands of people have had the nerve to ask you about the most popular pre-ordered car in automotive history but you could take the chip off of your shoulder and understand that I'm your customer, and I have given Tesla an interest free loan for nearly two years on this car and can be just a little excited about it. What's more, I already told you I know you don't have demonstrators but maybe we would get lucky and see one.

Sheesh.

It gets better though. He comes back over a few minutes later while we are looking at the design area and my wife is asking what colors I like... He asks when I am supposed to get my car. I comment that I pre-ordered on day 1 so should get invited to configure soon, my delivery estimate for first production is April-June 2018, but I'll probably hold off for AWD or at least give them more time to work the early gremlins out.

He then comments "well you won't get the tax credit then".

"what?, the tax credit just starts to phase out when the 200K car is delivered and that hasn't even happened yet, and even then you get the full credit for that entire quarter, and then it phases out gradulaly over the next several quarters, you will get some part of the credit, no matter what, into 2019 unless tax law gets changed!!".

"well, you've got bad info, and if we build these cars as fast as we are going to build them you won't get a tax credit if you wait".... or something more or less along those lines.

He had a real smug look on his face and after trying to explain for another few minutes how he was completely WRONG about all of this and maybe do some goddamn research like I have on the tax credit, my wife, seeing I was losing my cool finally pulled me away.

As I mentioned, this is the 2nd time I've been treated this way in a Tesla store. Tesla, you need to treat your customers better. I get it that people are wildly excited about your new car and that for the first time ever you've got to deal with lowly people like me buying a $50,000 car instead of a $100,000 Model S or X but come on! Since this keeps happening either I am the biggest jerk on the planet (wife says no) or this kind of attitude is coming from management of these stores, and trickling down to rank and file employees which is horrible.

I've bought Audi, BMW, Infiniti, Acura, and I have never been treated like this by a sales person from any of those companies.

While the "customer is always right" is a terrible expression (because it's mostly false), you can't have sales people or customer advisors or whatever you want to call them getting their rocks off by arguing with your customers, especially when they are wrong and giving out bad info!

I don't even know if I want a damn Tesla know if this is how they operate.

That person should not be in a customer facing role.
It’s hard to find good people, the US has been edging toward peak employment for the past 10 years and is now pretty much at peak. Sounds like you got the last guy to be picked for the team...

 

[voip-ninja]

That person should not be in a customer facing role.
It’s hard to find good people, the US has been edging toward peak employment for the past 10 years and is now pretty much at peak. Sounds like you got the last guy to be picked for the team...

We're nowhere near peak employment. That would require millions who don't care to look for full time permanent work to decide to re-enter the job market.

 

[jelloslug]

We're nowhere near peak employment. That would require millions who don't care to look for full time permanent work to decide to re-enter the job market.

From what I understand, any time you hit 5%, you start really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

 

[voip-ninja]

From what I understand, any time you hit 5%, you start really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Unemployment numbers were changed not too long ago to exclude those who were working part time or had left the job market, example would be someone losing their job, looking for a while and then deciding not to work and have a spouse support them.

As the job market gets tight wages will go up and more of these people will decide to take a job, especially if part time job workers who got hammered by the last recession are able to find full time permanent employment.

The biggest problem with the last recovery is that much of the "recovery" were very low paying part or full time positions in the service sector. We should see a lot of wage pressure now as the number of skilled jobs needed has grown quite a bit over just the last year or so.

 

[jelloslug]

Unemployment numbers were changed not too long ago to exclude those who were working part time or had left the job market, example would be someone losing their job, looking for a while and then deciding not to work and have a spouse support them.

As the job market gets tight wages will go up and more of these people will decide to take a job, especially if part time job workers who got hammered by the last recession are able to find full time permanent employment.

The biggest problem with the last recovery is that much of the "recovery" were very low paying part or full time positions in the service sector. We should see a lot of wage pressure now as the number of skilled jobs needed has grown quite a bit over just the last year or so.

The skilled worker market has been tight for almost 10 years now. It's been quite hard for a while now to find people that want to work.