Wait for sport/performance option?

[Doug_G]

Assuming they can beef up the existing drive train - more IGBT's, bigger motor, gear box changes, thicker drive axle maybe - then I don't see why they'd have to change much else. They could beef up the brakes, and maybe make the suspension adjustable. Then they would likely add some fluff features to help them support a higher price point, like they did for the Roadster Sport.

If they need to add a motor up front, then the changes would likely be very substantial.

 

[smorgasbord]

The Model S is supposed to have adjustable air shocks. The Santana Row store has an aluminum exoskeleton with them on front and rear.

 

[Jaff]

Absolutely!

They will be overbuilding not to satisfy the needs of the "few" who want extra performance...(BTW, I don't think it will be a few...I'd bet there wll be a large portion of the current reservation holders would want a performance mode)...the vehicle will be overbuilt to show the toughness & superiority of Tesla's electric performance sedan, period.

TM will not be "overcharging base model customers" for overbuilt items...it will simply be that the base model will be robust enough to handle a "performance package" motor / pem / software.

So you think they're going to purposefully overbuild the base model to satisfy the minority of people requiring the sport model? That means they're either A) forced to overcharge base model customers for overbuilt items those customers don't need, thus being less price competitive, or B) eat the additional cost, thus reducing profits. Neither makes much financial sense on their own.

If it makes financial sense to overbuild and eat the cost because they'll make it back on supply chain simplicity, manufacturing simplicity, etc, then it'll happen. If it doesn't, they'll have to create a slightly different model specifically for sport customers. Lacking expertise on auto manufacturing, I really don't know how that'll end up going.

 

[ckessel]

TM will not be "overcharging base model customers" for overbuilt items...it will simply be that the base model will be robust enough to handle a "performance package" motor / pem / software.

When I buy the non-sport model, it has a basic set of materials cost. If that cost his higher than required to support the base model, who exactly do you think is going to pay for those overbuilt items I don't need?

And they're not building the car simply for the current reservation holders, they're building it for the tens of thousands to be produced after that. People requiring a sport model are always in the minority of any automotive product line. If it were otherwise, then the manufacturer completely misjudged the market to being with for their base model.

 

[SByer]

I'm thinking that with upgraded components, the PEM could handle needed additional power without needing much, if any, extra space. The motor, same thing, especially with the liquid cooling. The parts in between the motor and the wheels I would think could handle anything extra without blinking. I would assume that the sport would only come with the largest battery. A bit of a stiffer suspension, and that low COG helps handling. I really don't think it takes much 'overbuilding' to allow for sport headroom in a EV - the platform is just naturally superior and more scalable that way.

Of course, we're all just geek armchair quarterbacking.

 

[AnOutsider]

And they're not building the car simply for the current reservation holders, they're building it for the tens of thousands to be produced after that. People requiring a sport model are always in the minority of any automotive product line. If it were otherwise, then the manufacturer completely misjudged the market to being with for their base model.

See again: future upgrades. It's a platform they expect to be around for a while. Also as someone else pointed out, the platform has to support an SUV and other variants.

I think you're under the impression that there's a lot that would need to be done JUST to make it "faster" compared to just make it a strong, safe car. If the upgrade is just a new motor, brakes and software (which, again, is the most common thing done when a performance model is created), the structure wouldn't need to be touched -- ergo: it wasn't over-produced for just a sport's model.

As mentioned, most manufacturers do motor, software, brake and suspension upgrades in a sports model. They also add visual accents to the interior and exterior. None of that requires structural change. The only way I could see a core change needed is if the power going through the "transmission" (or the EV-equiv) was too much for the stock build to handle and needed to be upgraded (often seen as a clutch upgrade in ICE cars). Again though, it requires no structural changes. Simply component swaps.

 

[ckessel]

I think you're under the impression that there's a lot that would need to be done JUST to make it "faster" compared to just make it a strong, safe car.

Actually, no. My exact words were: "I can see a variety of reasons why it might be more than a minor change. Not saying it has to be that way, just that I wouldn't be surprised."

"I wouldn't be surprised". Which is entirely different from: "It'll be a HUGE deal!"

The impression I'm hearing offered is the reverse expectation, that it'll be some simple part swap and software toggle. Which, if true, I think they would have already announced it. We'll see what the 10/1 announcements bring.

People have mentioned the platform frame will support other cars. Anytime you can reuse a framework in any industry, that's a huge R&D savings. But that's just the frame vs. everything that goes on the frame for an individual car. I really doubt it's going to be like Legos where you could take a Model S and swap a few items and create the Model X.

 

[Jaff]

I agree SB, we won't know til the rubber hits the road here...as you say, the critical components (outside of an adjustable suspension) are all housed in the rear axle assemble & cylinder...I don't see the logic of offering a performance version that demands major upgrades in other areas...swapping out the rear axle assembly & component cylinder shouldn't be that difficult...to me, I think TM designed it this way with the component swap out capability in mind. The ability to swap out (design redundancy)seems to be high on TM's engineering list...(swap out battery pack...ability to (re)use the design of the Model S chassis on future models / etc).

I'm thinking that with upgraded components, the PEM could handle needed additional power without needing much, if any, extra space. The motor, same thing, especially with the liquid cooling. The parts in between the motor and the wheels I would think could handle anything extra without blinking. I would assume that the sport would only come with the largest battery. A bit of a stiffer suspension, and that low COG helps handling. I really don't think it takes much 'overbuilding' to allow for sport headroom in a EV - the platform is just naturally superior and more scalable that way.

Of course, we're all just geek armchair quarterbacking.

 

[Jaff]

Agree completely AO!...

See again: future upgrades. It's a platform they expect to be around for a while. Also as someone else pointed out, the platform has to support an SUV and other variants.

I think you're under the impression that there's a lot that would need to be done JUST to make it "faster" compared to just make it a strong, safe car. If the upgrade is just a new motor, brakes and software (which, again, is the most common thing done when a performance model is created), the structure wouldn't need to be touched -- ergo: it wasn't over-produced for just a sport's model.

As mentioned, most manufacturers do motor, software, brake and suspension upgrades in a sports model. They also add visual accents to the interior and exterior. None of that requires structural change. The only way I could see a core change needed is if the power going through the "transmission" (or the EV-equiv) was too much for the stock build to handle and needed to be upgraded (often seen as a clutch upgrade in ICE cars). Again though, it requires no structural changes. Simply component swaps.

 

[vfx]

I thought the performance version was a offhand quip from Elon, (along the lines of) "that might be possible". Now as often happens after a few dozen posts, it's a bonafide option.

 

[TEG]

MAX 2009 Design - Reinventing the Driving Experience: The Tesla Model S | Adobe TV

Also, page 7 here:
http://keizai.org/events-files/Teslapresentation_Keizai1009.pdf

Page 35 here:
http://asia.stanford.edu/us-atmc/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/ee402s-04022009-tesla.pdf

For an "offhand quip" it sure got around...

---
By the way, a 4.4s 0-60 would match the 2012 Mercedes S63 AMG:
2012 Mercedes-Benz S63 AMG Car news and car pictures

 

[vfx]

I stand (sit actually) corrected.

 

[William13]

I expect a sport version will have an extra motor on the front wheels with an extra PEM. This would be easiest to do as they eventually plan a four wheel drive version. Just keep the rear motor the same.

The suspension is supposed to be a sports type anyway and thus I think the antisway bar is the only piece of suspension needing replaced. Most cars can be "improved" with more horsepower and minor other changes. Tires,brakes,and software for traction control and power distribution.

 

[Norbert]

I expect a sport version will have an extra motor on the front wheels with an extra PEM. This would be easiest to do as they eventually plan a four wheel drive version. Just keep the rear motor the same.

That'd be cool, if it isn't too expensive, adding front regen as well.

The suspension is supposed to be a sports type anyway and thus I think the antisway bar is the only piece of suspension needing replaced. Most cars can be "improved" with more horsepower and minor other changes. Tires,brakes,and software for traction control and power distribution.

IIRC there was talk about Brembo brakes being optional, yet recommended for the 300 mile pack. I'd think they'd dimension them sufficient for performance.

 

[kgb]

i expect a sport version will have an extra motor on the front wheels with an extra pem. This would be easiest to do as they eventually plan a four wheel drive version. Just keep the rear motor the same.

i will start by saying what follows is pure speculation, but i envisioned for the model s performance model was also going the 4-wheel drive model. I didn't think that a mild current boost from an upgraded pem/motor would make much difference (look at roadster v. Roadster sport). I figured the best way to get more power out of the car would be to add a second motor where the front axle is. Twice as many engines could mean twice as much power.

aol..

 

[neroden]

The Model S is supposed to have adjustable air shocks. The Santana Row store has an aluminum exoskeleton with them on front and rear.

Good news. I can get them adjusted for a soft ride.

 

[JimmWilks]

Twitter says that Elon Musk has just confirmed the existence of a sport version in the pipeline with 0-60mph sprint in 4.5s:

@carrosmagazine #Tesla topman #Elon #Musk kondigt sportversie van #Model-S aan. hondersprint in 4,5 seconden #TwitPict twitpic.com/6tli86

Yes, it is in dutch, but google translate tells me it says:

"Tesla CEO Elon Musk announced sport version of Model-S. hundred sprint in 4.5 seconds" - assuming hundred sprint means 0-100 km/h.

 

[Mycroft]

JimmWilks posted this link in a different thread, but I thought it matched better here:

Green Car Reports: Breaking: Tesla Making Faster 2012 Model S, 0-60 in under 4.5 seconds

How cool would that be!?! We're going to need a new poll. How much would you pay to add that option to the Signature edition? I would go $20k easily!

4.5 secs would kick the Audi A7's ass and the non-turbo Porsche Panamera too.

The base price on the 4.0 sec Panamera Turbo is $137,000.

 

[JimmWilks]

JimmWilks posted this link in a different thread, but I thought it matched better here:

Sorry it does, what with all the new info coming in and wanting to get to sleep I put it up quickly in the news section. Personally I wouldn't pay for it as 5.6s is fast enough for me, but I am glad they're doing it purely to see some genuinely interesting and innovative competition for the all-pervasive BMW M5 and as something to wave at the Top Gear heads.

 

[Mycroft]

Absolutely! 4.5 secs is about the same as my tiny two-seater SLK 55 without burning through 18mpg! I'm totally over the moon if I can get this!!!!