WARNING: I rear-ended someone today while using Auto Pilot in my brand new P90D!

[dhanson865]

"more logical" -- you state that while quoting him where he clearly still believes reading was "appropriate use of AP" since he states "allegedly inappropriate use of AP". I'm looking forward to using AP but following Tesla VERY clear instructions on how to use it. Hands on wheel and you are responsible for the vehicles driving. Every odd scenario needs to be reported but none from looking at the logs timestamps based on an ambulance report documented time for the non-Tesla driver and their family/friends ... if you know what I mean.

Have you seen the quotes / videos where Elon admits he drives in AP with hands off the wheel on a regular basis? What do you think about Elon doing it? Are you going to start bad mouthing Elon every time you see a post about him?

 

[Electricfan]

@ElectricFan
What is that bump sound at 0:05? Car swerved immediately after that sound.

Sorry but I have the original file and after listening over and over I just don't know. I can't see a bump in the road. I don't remember the noise. I have no idea. Just guessing, it sounds like the car hit something small in the road.

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I think it is the sound of car going over some minor imperfection in the road. The car goes over two strips of imperfections beginning at 0:14. At 0:05 imperfection, car was recovering from a curve. Do minor speed brakers/bumps cause problem with AP? This is my observation of the video. I cant find any other event.
Also, what is that black space on the other side of road? The one with incoming traffic. It is also at same location as the anomaly.

No, I haven't noticed bumps causing a problem with AP. My car drives this road every single day, M-F. At the same time. Why it drove on the shoulder this time is very strange.

The black space is a place where the concrete barrier is replaced with metal barrels, for unknown reasons. There are several occurrences of this in beltway 8 around this location.

 

[Andyw2100]

Sorry but I have the original file and after listening over and over I just don't know. I can't see a bump in the road. I don't remember the noise. I have no idea. Just guessing, it sounds like the car hit something small in the road.

If you have a few minutes, try listening to some video from your car from other times when it has TACC engaged. I really think that is just the sound of the car changing from power to regenerative braking. With TACC on that happens pretty regularly, so it shouldn't be too hard for you to find a couple of other incidents of that, and see if the sound is the same. I could be mistaken, but that's what it sounded like to me.

 

[Navyguy]

WRONG. If you don't have enough room to stop, then one of 2 things is happening:
1) you aren't paying enough attention to what it's doing, and failed to intervene early enough
2) you have it set to follow too close and need to back it off so that you have enough time to react.

As autopilot is currently only a driving aid, and not self driving, there is currently only one possible way for AP to cause a collision, and that's by failing to relinquish control to the driver when requested. As you haven't suggested that the car did this, then you must take FULL responsibility, not just the type of responsibility where you say "it's me but I couldn't have prevented it"

Lol these elitists. "AUTOPILOT IS THE BEST..." Car crashes -"DUMBASS DRIVER - YOUR FAULT... AUTOPILOT ITS THE BEST"


His fault for setting the distance trusting it too long, tesla's fault for miss representing its effectiveness. The car is still supposed to emergency brake in ANY situation, however in this it didn't. BOTH are at fault, the "AUTOPILOT"<<<<< malfunctioned. "Assistance" or not.

 

[Max*]

Lol these elitists. "AUTOPILOT IS THE BEST..." Car crashes -"DUMBASS DRIVER - YOUR FAULT... AUTOPILOT ITS THE BEST"


His fault for setting the distance trusting it too long, tesla's fault for miss representing its effectiveness. The car is still supposed to emergency brake in ANY situation, however in this it didn't. BOTH are at fault, the "AUTOPILOT"<<<<< malfunctioned. "Assistance" or not.

Actually the car did emergency brake, Tesla pulled the logs.

Pot calling the kettle black? Just saying....

 

[Navyguy]

My car tried to sideswipe a truck today. I grabbed the wheel and avoided the accident - I'm 100% sure it would have hit the truck. I trust AP much less now than I did when I woke up this morning. Sure hope we see a massive improvement soon. If anybody can see anything in the video that might have confused AP, please comment. I can't think of anything. The windshield was clean. The lane ahead was clear, no confusing markings of any kind. The car just dove to the right like it wanted to ram the truck. I did not hit the wheel causing it to move. I wasn't touching the wheel. My arms were at the sides on armrests. My leg didn't hit the wheel. The wheel moved completely of its own accord.

Weird, it almost looks like the color of the car was too close to that of the lines and it did the same thing along the "lines" no pun intended of when it first got released and it wanted to veer off of exit lanes because the line followed the exit ramp/

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Actually the car did emergency brake, Tesla pulled the logs.

Pot calling the kettle black? Just saying....

How is that calling it black? One I never said its the sweetest thing in the world. 2 I have yet to make the purchase lol. still seeing how things are doing, and so far I am getting less and less impressed

 

[WannabeOwner]

My car had been traveling at approximately 40 MPH when it engaged the AEB. He told me that the engineers determined that the car in front of must have slammed on the brakes ("a rapid emergency deceleration")

I have a question:

From your initial post the guy in the car in front didn't jump out and say "The idiot in front of me stopped suddenly" or "XXX fell off the vehicle in front of me and I had to stop suddenly", there doesn't appear to be any indication that he stopped suddenly and that isn't your recollection either, although I agree that adrenalin-rush or eyewitness-unreliability might be a factor in your recollection.

So my question is: assuming he was braking reasonably hard, not himself using AEB, not in some heavily modifed car with very fancy brakes, shouldn't a Tesla's AEB be able to outbreak him? TACC reaction time should be a few milliseconds I think?, you were 1 second behind him, why didn't AEB stop you in time?

And why did you need to augment the AEB with manual braking at all? Tesla say you braked one second after the alarm went off, surely AEB should have done its job enough by then?

My assumption is that a Tesla, being well equipped, will out-brake a "regular" car, or is that not true?

If the TACC was tracking the wrong vehicle, which had by then pulled over to the other lane, then this would surely be something that needs fixing (and calls your liability into question) and has nothing to do with Tesla's assertion

I'm probably overlooking something very obvious

I'm not sure I would want to own a Tesla without a dashboard camera to adjudicate if it was me, the "Other Guy", or Tesla that caused the problem.

 

[McRat]

...

My assumption is that a Tesla, being well equipped, will out-brake a "regular" car, or is that not true?...

Based on independent testing, a Model S stops towards the high end of sedans. It has about the same as braking power as a Camry or any other standard sedan. A BMW base 3 series will stop sooner.

Do not tailgate a modern sportscar. They stop a lot faster than a Model S can. Certainly enough to defeat a close setting on an auto braking system. About 40 feet difference at 70mph. Even something like a Camaro coupe will stop 30' shorter.

 

[Navyguy]

I agree, the automated braking should have stopped you sooner than you could have, it would have reacted faster than you could have and applied optimal braking pressure. HOWEVER I think what happened was it was tracking the car in front, it changed lanes and the car in front of him stopped sooner than the tesla was able to aquire a "lock" on the next in line car in front? OR just a complete sensor / TACC /braking failure. in that case Tesla's fault for faulty software/hardware BUT accident wise your faulty for following too closely, or waiting for it to react etc. (or simply unavoidable accident however, that stems to following too closely unfortunately you could always follow further away no matter how close or far you already are.)

If it did take too long to acquire a lock on the next vehicle that is a serious flaw, think of what happens if the guy breaks fast, the guy behind him swerves away and your left with no reaction time. it needs to detect a fast oncoming obstacle and apply the brakes accordingly regardless of if it thinks its a car or not. after all, any object not moving in front of you the sensor sees as a "wall" so to speak.

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I have a question:

From your initial post the guy in the car in front didn't jump out and say "The idiot in front of me stopped suddenly" or "XXX fell off the vehicle in front of me and I had to stop suddenly", there doesn't appear to be any indication that he stopped suddenly and that isn't your recollection either, although I agree that adrenalin-rush or eyewitness-unreliability might be a factor in your recollection.

So my question is: assuming he was braking reasonably hard, not himself using AEB, not in some heavily modifed car with very fancy brakes, shouldn't a Tesla's AEB be able to outbreak him? TACC reaction time should be a few milliseconds I think?, you were 1 second behind him, why didn't AEB stop you in time?

And why did you need to augment the AEB with manual braking at all? Tesla say you braked one second after the alarm went off, surely AEB should have done its job enough by then?

My assumption is that a Tesla, being well equipped, will out-brake a "regular" car, or is that not true?

If the TACC was tracking the wrong vehicle, which had by then pulled over to the other lane, then this would surely be something that needs fixing (and calls your liability into question) and has nothing to do with Tesla's assertion

I'm probably overlooking something very obvious

I'm not sure I would want to own a Tesla without a dashboard camera to adjudicate if it was me, the "Other Guy", or Tesla that caused the problem.

So an emergency braking, cant be saved by an AUTOMATED EMERGENCY Braking lol. I mean come on, that is such BS, that is the whole purpose of that, adaptive cruise control maintains and changes speed, AEB is supposed to be used when a human cannot or with proper speed react. now does that change the distance in which a car can physically stop no, hence the set follow distance. however it will minimize the impact by as much as computationally possible in the given amount of time etc.

 

[green1]

Remember that AEB does not stop the car​ it only reduces the speed and then releases. It is not designed to avoid collisions, that is not it's purpose. It's job is to reduce the impact of an already unavoidable collision. If you rely on it, and it is working properly, there is a very high chance you will hit the other vehicle.

 

[McRat]

Yes, it is to prevent serious injury from inattentive driving. Normally a human looks at more than just the car right in front of them. AEB cannot. When I see brakes 5 cars up, I increase my distance and tap my brake rapidly 3 times. This is to avoid getting cornholed. Then I get ready to "split lanes" in case there is a collision as the cars in front are braking. If one person is texting, there will be an impact, and impacts produce very short stopping distances.

 

[Navyguy]

Remember that AEB does not stop the car​ it only reduces the speed and then releases. It is not designed to avoid collisions, that is not it's purpose. It's job is to reduce the impact of an already unavoidable collision. If you rely on it, and it is working properly, there is a very high chance you will hit the other vehicle.

WOw really? well I may have found 3 of 3 deal breakers, lol since there are alot of even lower end cars that ave automatic emergency braking. I think even a honda does, for a car to have autopilot yet not stop from an emergency then that's a deal breaker.

 

[green1]

WOw really? well I may have found 3 of 3 deal breakers, lol since there are alot of even lower end cars that ave automatic emergency braking. I think even a honda does, for a car to have autopilot yet not stop from an emergency then that's a deal breaker.

Many vehicles have AEB, but read the fine print to see if any of them are any different. It's clearly in the manual for the Model S, I wouldn't be surprised if other cars are the same.

 

[gregincal]

WOw really? well I may have found 3 of 3 deal breakers, lol since there are alot of even lower end cars that ave automatic emergency braking. I think even a honda does, for a car to have autopilot yet not stop from an emergency then that's a deal breaker.

Yes, Honda does have such a system, and it works exactly the same as Tesla's. The key with such systems is that they kick in when a collision is "unavoidable" which by definition means that it will not be able to prevent the collision. Here is from my Honda CR-V owners manual:

Collision Mitigation Braking System
Can alert you when a potential frontal collision with a vehicle or pedestrian is determined and reduce your vehicle speed when a collision is deemed unavoidable to help minimize collision severity.

 

[Navyguy]

Yes, Honda does have such a system, and it works exactly the same as Tesla's. The key with such systems is that they kick in when a collision is "unavoidable" which by definition means that it will not be able to prevent the collision. Here is from my Honda CR-V owners manual:

Collision Mitigation Braking System
Can alert you when a potential frontal collision with a vehicle or pedestrian is determined and reduce your vehicle speed when a collision is deemed unavoidable to help minimize collision severity.

Well AEB is a false representation of it, if it causes it CMB as above, AEB was mentioned as Automatic emergency braking, and btw the honda one they showed it with working going x speed into a semi that was parked, and showed it slamming on the brakes, I will try to find the video (not the malfunctioning prototype one tho ahah)

 

[green1]

Well AEB is a false representation of it, if it causes it CMB as above, AEB was mentioned as Automatic emergency braking,

How is it misleading? They say it automatically brakes in an emergency, that's exactly what it does, nowhere is it called collision avoidance, or automatic STOPPING.

and btw the honda one they showed it with working going x speed into a semi that was parked, and showed it slamming on the brakes, I will try to find the video (not the malfunctioning prototype one tho ahah)

Sure, many companies have shown videos of how a system might someday work, but if the manual says that it doesn't stop the car, I'll trust that over a video of what they might do someday.

 

[Navyguy]

How is it misleading? They say it automatically brakes in an emergency, that's exactly what it does, nowhere is it called collision avoidance, or automatic STOPPING.


Sure, many companies have shown videos of how a system might someday work, but if the manual says that it doesn't stop the car, I'll trust that over a video of what they might do someday.

2015 Hyundai Genesis - Automatic Emergency Braking test - YouTube


Volvo Trucks - Emergency braking at its best! - YouTube


Could keep posting, but what I am saying is they advertise all this safety crap as a marketing sell. then small text disclaimer it in the manual which you wont see until after you bought the car. they call it one thing aloud, AEB, then write is as CAB (computer assisted braking etc) Just saying.

He didn't say how fast he was going BUT he did say it slowed down, after a certain speed like 50 mph I think it only mitigates the crash. under 40 I believe it is supposed to stop fully. at least the ones I saw in those videos do. But full highway speed at 70 into a stopped vehicle perhaps wouldn't have stopped. but it should have at least applied full brakes. You know, since that is how it is sold and advertised. otherwise it's simply false advertising. and almost as bad as saying cigarettes are safe, like tobacco companies used to say until the mid 90's when they finally got sued.

 

[AWDtsla]

Well AEB is a false representation of it, if it causes it CMB as above, AEB was mentioned as Automatic emergency braking, and btw the honda one they showed it with working going x speed into a semi that was parked, and showed it slamming on the brakes, I will try to find the video (not the malfunctioning prototype one tho ahah)

Maybe read the manual.

 

[msnow]

Weird, it almost looks like the color of the car was too close to that of the lines and it did the same thing along the "lines" no pun intended of when it first got released and it wanted to veer off of exit lanes because the line followed the exit ramp/

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How is that calling it black? One I never said its the sweetest thing in the world. 2 I have yet to make the purchase lol. still seeing how things are doing, and so far I am getting less and less impressed

As you are not an owner, perhaps your feedback would be far more appreciated in the Honda forum than your trolling in this one.

 

[Navyguy]

Maybe read the manual.

Maybe don't false advertise