Warranty/Servicing - official Tesla responses (incl GeorgeB)

[NigelM]

My question is: what is the comparable offering from BMW or Mercedes for a comparable US$50k-US$100k car?

BMW includes a no-cost maintenance program for 4 years or 50,000 miles. Note though that on the sales pages of their website they ask you to factor that in when comparing costs to other cars and claim that you need to measure the true total cost. They say the maintenance program is worth $2,000.

For years 5 and 6 you can buy two-year plan as follows:

All this can be picked apart, but in truth it's probably comparable. It would be fair to ask if Tesla should be comparable or better/cheaper.

---U p d a t e ---

On to Mercedes then. I scanned through their webpage and couldn't find prices.....Did find this in the FAQ:

• Some other luxury vehicle manufacturers include “free” maintenance in the sale of every vehicle. Why does Mercedes-Benz sell its maintenance separately?

Answer: Maintenance is never truly “free.” These manufacturers add the cost of maintenance into the price of their vehicles, so even though it is not called out separately, you are still paying for the service. Mercedes-Benz gives our customers the option to choose, providing transparency in maintenance costs and the convenience of not having to worry about these costs later on. The customer can decide on the best approach to suit their driving habits.

 

[ken830]

Most people seem to focus on the $475 or $600 "per year" and leave out the "per 12,500 miles".

For many of us, we simply can't afford a conventional $60K car. But we can afford a $60K EV if we happen to drive a lot. That's because the low cost of electricity means that it only costs 3 to 4 cents of electricity to drive every mile. This maintenance program adds in another 4 to 5 cents per mile, more than doubling the per-mile costs. And many of us were expecting "low-cost maintenance" as an additional feature of the car to make it even more affordable.

 

[Beavis]

One of the complaints I read is that nobody knew what the plan would be before signing on the bottom line. This may factually true but is not the whole story. I certainly knew that it was possible based on what Roadster owners were paying (extensive thread discussions on this topic) so I budgeted for $600 annually just to be conservative. I didn't know the plan before buying the car but I certainly suspected what it could be. Anyone who is regularly cruising the forums shouldn't be surprised. Many of us asked our reps and were told the same thing, "We don't know about the annual service fee but it won't be more than the Roadster." It turns out it's the same as the Roadster. Bummer, but I am not surprised. There are, however, plenty of reservation holders that don't cruise the forums like those of us who are obsessed.

 

[shokunin]

Also, the whole battery warranty should be thrown in the trash. There is no warranty, they will be an annual or preapid plan for service and inspection that will warranty the battery for another year for a maximum of 8 years or after specified number a miles. How can Tesla provide an 8 year warranty on a battery pack if it's tied a $600 / annual cost for the first 4 years and ????? for years 5-8?

Another question on the plan. If I prepay and I get my model S next week (I wish). By March, my wipers may be toast, can I drop in and get a replacement or do I need to wait a whole year before I can get a new set?

When I replace tires, I typically get an alignment done to reduce the risk/chance of uneven / premature tread wear due to misalignment. If I get my service done at 12.5K miles and all of sudden I need tires at 15,000 miles, can I drop in for another alignment, even if one was done at 12.5k?

Here's Tesla's problem going forward. A lot of people are taking a leap of faith (call it early adopter) and locking in un-refundable deposits with a committed MVPA agreement. People are doing this WITHOUT a LOT of information being provided. There's a whole punchlist thread over on TM's forum.

Cost of service (now we know) for first 4yr/50K miles.
What is the grace period (time/miles) before you get SOL'd on any warranty issues. If I come in at 14 months am I screwed? 13,500?
Cost of service beyond 4yr/50K, since the battery an 8 year warranty, what will it cost me to keep that warranty for the full 8 years?
Cost of connectivity plan. What is it $10/mo, 20? 30? $59.99 a month??? what about 4G or LTE upgrades and cost? I'm not paying $30/month for crappy 3G service when LTE is out.
Cost of opportunity consoles. You guys are working on it, why don't you tell us ballpark cost estimates on cost per option? When? Timeline?
Timeline of promised features, iPhone app, remote cooling, charging, working out the bugs in Nav, backup camera enhancements, etc. Someone is managing a product backlog and release cycle, a simple high-level non-committal roadmap would be nice.
Cost to supercharge??
Cost of ??? what other hidden costs are there that consumers should know and account for before making a decision.

 

[aviators99]

Do you know the laws around whether manufacturers need to make service info available to others? I found some verbiage about exposing EPA centric stuff from the on board computer port, but nothing yet about general service info. In essence, can anyone other than Tesla effectively do the service if Tesla isn't required to publish service manuals? I'd guess there's some requirement on this or normal manufacturer's would have made sure only dealer's had the necessary info.

No, I do not. My expertise lies in the area of what the manufacturer's new vehicle limited warranty is allowed and not allowed to say (and it cannot say what GB said it will say).

 

[4sevens.com]

Also, the whole battery warranty should be thrown in the trash. There is no warranty, they will be an annual or preapid plan for service and inspection that will warranty the battery for another year for a maximum of 8 years or after specified number a miles. How can Tesla provide an 8 year warranty on a battery pack if it's tied a $600 / annual cost for the first 4 years and ????? for years 5-8?

Another question on the plan. If I prepay and I get my model S next week (I wish). By March, my wipers may be toast, can I drop in and get a replacement or do I need to wait a whole year before I can get a new set?

When I replace tires, I typically get an alignment done to reduce the risk/chance of uneven / premature tread wear due to misalignment. If I get my service done at 12.5K miles and all of sudden I need tires at 15,000 miles, can I drop in for another alignment, even if one was done at 12.5k?

Here's Tesla's problem going forward. A lot of people are taking a leap of faith (call it early adopter) and locking in un-refundable deposits with a committed MVPA agreement. People are doing this WITHOUT a LOT of information being provided. There's a whole punchlist thread over on TM's forum.

Cost of service (now we know) for first 4yr/50K miles.
What is the grace period (time/miles) before you get SOL'd on any warranty issues. If I come in at 14 months am I screwed? 13,500?
Cost of service beyond 4yr/50K, since the battery an 8 year warranty, what will it cost me to keep that warranty for the full 8 years?
Cost of connectivity plan. What is it $10/mo, 20? 30? $59.99 a month??? what about 4G or LTE upgrades and cost? I'm not paying $30/month for crappy 3G service when LTE is out.
Cost of opportunity consoles. You guys are working on it, why don't you tell us ballpark cost estimates on cost per option? When? Timeline?
Timeline of promised features, iPhone app, remote cooling, charging, working out the bugs in Nav, backup camera enhancements, etc. Someone is managing a product backlog and release cycle, a simple high-level non-committal roadmap would be nice.
Cost to supercharge??
Cost of ??? what other hidden costs are there that consumers should know and account for before making a decision.

amen brother well said.

 

[Lyon]

No, I do not. My expertise lies in the area of what the manufacturer's new vehicle limited warranty is allowed and not allowed to say (and it cannot say what GB said it will say).

So the Model S warranty says the following:

"Although Tesla does not require you to perform all maintenance, service or repairs at a Tesla Service Center or Tesla authorized repair facility, this New Vehicle Limited Warranty may be voided or coverage may be excluded due to lack of or improper maintenance, service or repairs. Tesla Service Centers and Tesla authorized repair facilities have special training, expertise, tools and supplies with respect to your vehicle and, in certain cases, may employ the only persons or be the only facilities authorized or certified to work on certain parts of your vehicle. Tesla strongly recommends that you have all maintenance, service and repairs done at a Tesla Service Center or Tesla authorized repair facility in order to avoid voiding, or having coverage excluded under, this New Vehicle Limited Warranty."

You can read the full text here: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8491&d=1344064464

And before anyone points it out, no, the text of the warranty does not seem to be the same as what George B said in his post. In a legal conflict the Warranty would be controlling.

 

[NigelM]

Just want to note that GeorgeB wrote primarily about the service plan in his post. His reference to the warranty was as follows:

“What I will forfeit if I do NOT buy a service plan?”
You do not have to buy a pre-paid service plan. The pre-paid plans were designed for those who want to reduce their costs by pre-paying, or get unlimited Ranger visits… but you do not have to buy a pre-paid plan at all. On our website [http://www.teslamotors.com/service], there is a chart at the bottom of the Service page which shows various ways to pay for service. You can buy a pre-paid plan, but it also specifically says you can also pay annually when you bring your car in for its Annual or 12,500 mile Inspection. You will not forfeit anything as long as you get your car serviced in line with any one of the options shown.

“Is an annual inspection required to maintain the warranty?”
Yes. If you do not buy a pre-paid service plan or bring your car in for Inspection, when due, you will forfeit your warranty. This is no different than any other car manufacturer and is necessary to make sure your car is operating properly and to replace any wear and tear parts we think might need to be replaced proactively.

This is no different to other car manufacturer. I get the discussion about price, I get the discussion about information, but (and maybe it's me) I don't get all this discussion about warranty.

 

[hcsharp]

Most people seem to focus on the $475 or $600 "per year" and leave out the "per 12,500 miles".

For many of us, we simply can't afford a conventional $60K car. But we can afford a $60K EV if we happen to drive a lot. That's because the low cost of electricity means that it only costs 3 to 4 cents of electricity to drive every mile. This maintenance program adds in another 4 to 5 cents per mile, more than doubling the per-mile costs. And many of us were expecting "low-cost maintenance" as an additional feature of the car to make it even more affordable.

+1. We're in the camp that drives a lot. Less than 3-yr warranty for us. OK, to be fair, we can afford it but it feels like all the bragging Tesla did about how EVs are cheaper to maintain just became rubbish. They talk about "all consumables" but there aren't any expensive consumables on an EV! I can drive my Roadster for days without ever using the pads at all. Wipers and light bulbs don't cost anything. I kept promising my wife "the 12k will surly be cheaper than the Roadster..."

It's illegal in most states to require that you use Tesla's facilities exclusively to keep the warranty. Having said that, it will be a long time, if ever before anybody else can diagnose your car and prevent a melt down before it happens. So even though what GeorgeB said is legally not allowed, it's true by default.

 

[aviators99]

So the Model S warranty says the following:

"Although Tesla does not require you to perform all maintenance, service or repairs at a Tesla Service Center or Tesla authorized repair facility, this New Vehicle Limited Warranty may be voided or coverage may be excluded due to lack of or improper maintenance, service or repairs. Tesla Service Centers and Tesla authorized repair facilities have special training, expertise, tools and supplies with respect to your vehicle and, in certain cases, may employ the only persons or be the only facilities authorized or certified to work on certain parts of your vehicle. Tesla strongly recommends that you have all maintenance, service and repairs done at a Tesla Service Center or Tesla authorized repair facility in order to avoid voiding, or having coverage excluded under, this New Vehicle Limited Warranty."

You can read the full text here: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8491&d=1344064464

And before anyone points it out, no, the text of the warranty does not seem to be the same as what George B said in his post. In a legal conflict the Warranty would be controlling.

Yep. This quoted wording is legal. What GB said is not.

 

[Robert.Boston]

Do you know the laws around whether manufacturers need to make service info available to others?

Only Massachusetts requires car manufacturers to provide repair information and diagnostic tools at a reasonable price. The bill was signed into law last week and takes effect in November.

 

[bluetinc]

Just want to note that GeorgeB wrote primarily about the service plan in his post. His reference to the warranty was as follows:



This is no different to other car manufacturer. I get the discussion about price, I get the discussion about information, but (and maybe it's me) I don't get all this discussion about warranty.

NigelM,

I believe that this is the quote from GB that everyone is really talking about:

@DR CHILL: “What will happen to Tesla owners that do not pay for these annual inspections from Tesla? Can they take their car to an independent shop without affecting warranty coverage?”
You will forfeit your warranty if you do not do Annual or 12,500 mile Inspections, when due. You will forfeit your warranty if you take your Model S to an independent shop for vehicle service and/or repairs. Your car needs to be serviced by a current, Tesla Certified mechanic to make sure it is working properly and to maintain the warranty on your car.

 

[aviators99]

NigelM,

I believe that this is the quote from GB that everyone is really talking about:

@DR CHILL: “What will happen to Tesla owners that do not pay for these annual inspections from Tesla? Can they take their car to an independent shop without affecting warranty coverage?”
You will forfeit your warranty if you do not do Annual or 12,500 mile Inspections, when due. You will forfeit your warranty if you take your Model S to an independent shop for vehicle service and/or repairs. Your car needs to be serviced by a current, Tesla Certified mechanic to make sure it is working properly and to maintain the warranty on your car.

Exactly. That's the illegal part. I'm glad to see that the actual Warranty text reads differently---for Tesla's sake. I was going to prepay the service in any case.

 

[NigelM]

^^^ Every car manufacturer (and plenty of other consumer goods companies) say the exact same thing. Service work must be done by a certified technician. Tesla is a new company, there are no independent certified technicians yet.

Honestly, I wish someone would explain to me in simple language why all this "legal" discussion about something which is common practice in the auto (and other) industry and has been for years. Model S is not a $15,000 car, does anyone really expect to take it to the Joe the grease mechanic and not void their warranty?

(P.S. No offence to anyone called Joe, anyone who works with grease, or any mechanics that might be reading this!)

 

[Doug_G]

(P.S. No offence to anyone called Joe, anyone who works with grease, or any mechanics that might be reading this!)

I thought all Joes were plumbers. Oh wait, that was last time.

 

[NigelM]

i thought all joes were plumbers. Oh wait, that was last time.

lol.

.

 

[AnOutsider]

I have to say, I respect GeorgeB and thank him for stepping up to provide the info. I'm still not exactly thrilled with that info though. I think someone else summed it up best about Tesla Corporate. Not exactly thrilled with the direction they seem to be heading. Where's my flowers and roses experience the Roadster guys had?

 

[NigelM]

Where's my flowers and roses experience the Roadster guys had?

You gotta get your car first.....:tongue:

Seriously though, most Roadster owners will tell you that there's never been parsing of language and that Tesla has stepped up every time one of us had a problem and done what is right.
(Max Drucker may not agree)

 

[dsm363]

I have to say, I respect GeorgeB and thank him for stepping up to provide the info. I'm still not exactly thrilled with that info though. I think someone else summed it up best about Tesla Corporate. Not exactly thrilled with the direction they seem to be heading. Where's my flowers and roses experience the Roadster guys had?

For $475/year ($600 if you prepay for unlimited Ranger service) you get the same service plus towing. Also, non-warranty work is charge at $100 flat rate when Roadster owners technically were charged $1/mile with a minimum charge of $100 although they always found something that fit under warranty work and did the non-warranty work on my car for free.

 

[bonnie]

You gotta get your car first.....:tongue:

Seriously though, most Roadster owners will tell you that there's never been parsing of language and that Tesla has stepped up every time one of us had a problem and done what is right.
(Max Drucker may not agree)

+1 . I just posted the final blog from my roadtrip Roadtrip: The Rest of the Story - Blogs - Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum. No hearts and flowers, but Tesla did right by me.