Warranty/Servicing - official Tesla responses (incl GeorgeB)

[dsm363]

When the Prius first came out, could you get the hybrid system worked on at any repair shop or did you have to take it to Toyota? I see it as the same thing with Tesla at this point.

 

[clindsay]

Mostly. One fellow cancelled on the principle of being required to go to Telsa as he said "money wasn't the issue", which was unfortunate since it wasn't really the case he had to go to Tesla legally. In practice, yes, since Tesla is currently the only one qualified to maintain the battery/pem/motor/inverter, but that won't be the case forever if Tesla succeeds and ships zillions of cars.

I fully sympathize with the price issue. It's not a huge deal to me personally given what I pay today hence my lack of strong reaction, but I understand folks have different experiences.

I think you may have misinterpreted the meaning of the "money wasn't the issue" comment. Money wasn't the issue in terms of being able to afford the maintenance, but money is indeed the issue in the face of being forced to pay for the maintenance, which many of us feel is too high for the value, opportunistic, and flies in the face of the lower maintenance cost lies Tesla has been spinning for years now.

Many of the comments have been to the effect of, "Well you paid $100K for the car, you should be able to come up with $600 more a year for maintenance." So, for me and many others, we can come up with the cash needed to do the maintenance. We just don't want to. We don't see this as an appropriate price point for maintenance on a car that touts lower maintenance. It is a complete rip off, and when people like me feel ripped off, regardless if it is a $25 hamburger, or a $600 pair of windshield wipers, we get upset, vocal and eventually walk away frustrated and mad.

 

[ckessel]

Money wasn't the issue in terms of being able to afford the maintenance, but money is indeed the issue in the face of being forced to pay for the maintenance, which many of us feel is too high for the value, opportunistic, and fly in the fact of the lower maintenance cost lies Tesla has been spinning for years now.

Fair enough, no disagreement. My "money wasn't the issue" was specifically about polera's post where he was specifically upset about George's "Tesla only" mis-statement.

It is not about the money. I want the freedom to chose what I do with my vehicle and if I chose to maintain it outside of Tesla I should not be punished by no longer having a warranty.

 

[AnOutsider]

"Well you paid $100K for the car, you should be able to come up with $600 more a year for maintenance."

Exactly. I'm getting tired of hearing this. Do you (not you, but you know what I mean) think people who can afford expensive things got to that point by not knowing the value of their dollars? I remember at one of the stores I wanted a wallet and the rep came back to me -- almost ashamed -- to tell me that the price was $125. I just put 40k down on a car, could I afford it? Sure. Was it worth that to me? Not at all (didn't even have the Tesla logo).

 

[ckessel]

Exactly. I'm getting tired of hearing this. Do you (not you, but you know what I mean) think people who can afford expensive things got to that point by not knowing the value of their dollars? I remember at one of the stores I wanted a wallet and the rep came back to me -- almost ashamed -- to tell me that the price was $125. I just put 40k down on a car, could I afford it? Sure. Was it worth that to me? Not at all (didn't even have the Tesla logo).

I find this somewhat funny since it was EXACTLY the logic that multiple posters told me (i.e. you can afford it) when I complained about the lack of tire credit for 19" rims on the Perf.

I'm not criticizing AO, I just find it amusing to see the argument revisited in a new context.

 

[brianman]

I remember at one of the stores I wanted a wallet and the rep came back to me -- almost ashamed -- to tell me that the price was $125.

Holy moly. Does it come with 3 shares of Tesla stock in it?

 

[AnOutsider]

I find this somewhat funny since it was EXACTLY the logic that multiple posters told me (i.e. you can afford it) when I complained about the lack of tire credit for 19" rims on the Perf.

Not that I remember every single thing I've ever posted, but I'm pretty sure I didn't say that to you. I do remember disagreeing with you on the matter, but it was more along the lines of: "it's a package deal, I don't know of any manufacturers that let you break apart a package and tweak the prices -- it would no longer be a package".

In general, I'd say the only time I REALLY feel "hey, you can afford it, do it" is when someone is hemming and hawing on doing something they REALLY want to, but feeling a little iffy because the price is high -- in which case I usually tell them to go for it if it's not going to bankrupt them -- it's only money.

Holy moly. Does it come with 3 shares of Tesla stock in it?

Nope, just a snicker from the accountants behind the scenes.

*edit* ha, it's even on their site: Tire Tread Wallet Tesla Motors

"Oh this? Yeah it's new. I got it to show support for the company"

"Which company...?"

"erm..."

 

[measton]

The issue is cost

 

[ckessel]

Not that I remember every single thing I've ever posted, but I'm pretty sure I didn't say that to you.

I have no idea to be honest. I hold no ill will over any of it. It was a very good, heated, but honest debate amongst a bunch of us. I came out of it really feeling like everyone got heard, but we simply had different opinions.

My goal wasn't to point a finger, just to say it was amusing to see a somewhat similar debate here.

 

[measton]

The issue is cost

600/12,500 miles = about 1000 bucks a year for me.

The only warranty I'm worried about is battery, PEM, charger, computer - I can service the rest.

Now given this is a new car what sort of service do these elements need. Well according to the VOLT and Leaf maintenance schedule zero except for coolant.
Electrics are low maintenance.

Batteries - Monitored by the car no need for mechanic every 12,500 mi. If the rangers come to your office they are not pulling the battery pack.
PEM,computer,and charger should require nothing more than a dusting.
Brakes - My civic hybrid needed them at 7 years 112,000 mi
Wipers - Please
Towing - Triple A 55 bucks for the year
Software updates - If needed then should be covered under warranty if novelty then we can buy them if we want them

They would have been much better off asking 3000 more for each car and offering this stuff for free, but what they are doing now is dishonest particularly doing it after people have made deposits and accepted cars. It's straight out of the corporate America B school handbook on how to put your customer in a vice after they make a purchase.

This is what got me to cancel my reservation via my dealer. Tesla later phoned me and informed me that the the service contract was not mandatory for the warranty so we didn't complete the cancellation, but there is conflicting information from others in the company. I'm giving it another month and if things aren't spelled out I'll drop my reservation again.

I'd planned on ordering one for my wife if I liked the car, and I have plenty of people who ask me for advice on hybrids and electrics seeing as I own three. Tesla is shooting themselves in the foot with this.

 

[strider]

3. Itemize exactly what is done during the maintenance and how long each is going to take provided there is nothing to replace and also what part of the maintenance is for software upgrades. This one won't totally eliminate the lack of perceived value (because some of the items may come across as unnecessary to most folks) but at least it would show that something is being done other than just changing light bulbs and wiper blades.

This is my issue. I have a Roadster so in theory I'm fine w/ paying $600+ for service but Tesla needs to tell me what they're actually DOING. $600 is like 4 hours of shop labor. What is a tech doing for 4 hours? Plugging in a laptop to run diagnostics does not count. I can see 2 hours to plug in the laptop and while that's running check the brakes/suspension, fluid levels, rotate the tires, etc. They're not going to do an alignment unless you complain about the car pulling or notice irregular tire wear. Same w/ balancing.

I believe Tesla is spending 4 hours on my Roadster each year because I've been told what they do. Until they tell me what they're doing on Model S I'm not buying it.

This being said most of us have over a year before this will matter. So hopefully once they fall into a production and delivery rhythm they'll have time to get us this info to let us make informed decisions.

 

[brianman]

Tesla later phoned me and informed me that the the service contract was not mandatory for the warranty so we didn't complete the cancellation, but there is conflicting information from others in the company. I'm giving it another month and if things aren't spelled out I'll drop my reservation again.

Measton, if you happen to contact them again can you please ask them to provide publishing-to-the-forum-friendly language in e-mail form?

Many of us on the forum would like to see the phrasing, especially in light of the apparent conflict in phrasing between George B. and the warranty PDF.

Thanks for sharing and in advance if you happen to get that.

 

[polera257]

I think you may have misinterpreted the meaning of the "money wasn't the issue" comment. Money wasn't the issue in terms of being able to afford the maintenance, but money is indeed the issue in the face of being forced to pay for the maintenance, which many of us feel is too high for the value, opportunistic, and fly in the fact of the lower maintenance cost lies Tesla has been spinning for years now.
Many of the comments have been to the effect of, "Well you paid $100K for the car, you should be able to come up with $600 more a year for maintenance." So, for me and many others, we can come up with the cash needed to do the maintenance. We just don't want to. We don't see this as an appropriate price point for maintenance on a car that touts lower maintenance. It is a complete rip off, and when people like me feel ripped off, regardless if it is a $25 hamburger, or a $600 pair of windshield wipers, we get upset, vocal and eventually walk away frustrated and mad.

Very well said and exactly my point. I let my temper and disappointment interfere with my proper communication of my feelings but you put it perfectly! Thank You

 

[Beavis]

When someone says that something is too expensive, then the real issue is perceived value received for the price paid. Strider is right. Let's see what specific maintenance procedures they want to perform for their $475 (in my case) before going off the deep end.
I have said before that I am comfortable with the price if they are going to spend "several hours" inspecting my $100,000 car with a fine tooth comb. For me, it's too big of an investment to not want to someone meticulously going over it every year. So, let them publish the maintenance schedule.

 

[efusco]

When the Prius first came out, could you get the hybrid system worked on at any repair shop or did you have to take it to Toyota? I see it as the same thing with Tesla at this point.

Have done my own oil changes, fluids, tires, wheel rotations and other work on my Prius since I got it in 2003. I did take it in to Toyota for hybrid system related service, and still do.


Evan, Via TapaTalk

 

[Mycroft]

Tesla should have two levels of maintenance. The full meal deal that many folks will be happy to pay for and the basic drive train maintenance for those who want to perform routine auto maintenance themselves or via a local shop.

 

[clindsay]

This is my issue. I have a Roadster so in theory I'm fine w/ paying $600+ for service but Tesla needs to tell me what they're actually DOING. $600 is like 4 hours of shop labor. What is a tech doing for 4 hours? Plugging in a laptop to run diagnostics does not count. I can see 2 hours to plug in the laptop and while that's running check the brakes/suspension, fluid levels, rotate the tires, etc. They're not going to do an alignment unless you complain about the car pulling or notice irregular tire wear. Same w/ balancing.

I believe Tesla is spending 4 hours on my Roadster each year because I've been told what they do. Until they tell me what they're doing on Model S I'm not buying it.

This being said most of us have over a year before this will matter. So hopefully once they fall into a production and delivery rhythm they'll have time to get us this info to let us make informed decisions.

I think the itemization is a good idea, it would be helpful for some, but for me, it isn't going to be enough. I don't really care if the service takes one person 5 minutes or 5 techs and 3 days. Tesla sold me a car, and I signed my MVPA with the expectation that Tesla set, that service costs on the S, a revolutionary platform built from the ground up with low maintenance in mind, would actually have lower maintenance costs than an ICE vehicle.

Those of you who didn't believe Tesla's line on maintenance costs were perhaps better prepared for this number. Those of you who took roadster maintenance numbers in to account were much better prepared too. I didn't take those things in to account, clearly I should have. I took Tesla on its word. I looked at what the many ICE cars in my family have cost me over the last 30 years of driving and the yearly average is a tad under $325 a year. This includes many cars that we have owned cars from new to over 100K+ mile range. All these cars basically no significant maintenance costs in the first 4 years. It is the later years and higher miles that required belt and plug, and other fluid changes that brought the numbers up, items the Tesla doesn't even have. Looking back, at the first 4 years of owning 8 different ICE cars, the maintenance costs are $157.22 to be exact. My S shouldn't be higher than my 3 Hondas, 2 Acuras, 2 Toyotas and 1 Volvo. With maintenance at the pre-paid rate of $475, that means maintenance on this revolutionary low maintenance car is more than the average of 3 of my ICE cars, simply too high.

 

[ModelS1079]

Just guessing you havent gotten too many software updates for your Honda. Costs more than I thought, but it isn't all bad. Indeed, it'll be awesome a year from now to bring the car in. Just not feeling the anger of others. Respectfully.

- - - Updated - - -

Just guessing you havent gotten too many software updates for your Honda. Costs more than I thought, but it isn't all bad. Indeed, it'll be awesome a year from now to bring the car in. Just not feeling the anger of others. Respectfully.

 

[AustinPowers]

Right, but I don't think that has much impact on future reservationists. The current ones are getting hit with something they didn't expect (or not at this cost level) and that's a morale blow that has an impact beyond the dollar value.

New buyers are coming into a known situation, no surprises. I don't think they'll blink much at it. Had I just looked at Tesla for the first time today, it's just be part of the cost factor. It's possible that $2000 would tip things if I were at the edge of my cost vs. value proposition, but otherwise it wouldn't have much impact.

Quite possible, but there is still the fact that Tesla contradicts itself by proclaiming that EV's have much lower operating costs, especially because of very low maintenance costs, yet at the same time they charge an annual fee that is far above what many people have to pay for cars in the same price region, even though these are ICE's with far more breakable parts and consumables that need replacing.

So if a new buyer is faced with those facts it is hard to see, why he would want to buy a Tesla.

And about the impact of seeing cars on the road. I don't know much about the size of the US car market, but it has to be at least MUCH larger than the German one. And even if there were 10,000 Model S's on US roads that would mean on average only 200 per State, with most being located in very few states like California. How often would there be a chance say for someone living in Wisconsin, the Dakotas, or many other states to actually see a Model S on the road, to start getting interested? I would guess it's more likely to see a supercar like a Ferrari, Lamborghini or similar than to see a Model S, for quite a long time to come.

 

[dsm363]

There are at least 3 Model Ss arriving in Indiana soon and that's not far from Wisconsin. We basically have no idea what the long term maintenance costs of the Model S will be. We know about the $475/year for first 4 years. It's entirely possible that Tesla is right and that over time, it ends up being cheaper than something like a 5 series in years 5-10.