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Lots of rumors this AM of layoffs at Waymo:


Posts on Blind indicate the layoffs affect the truck division, but this is unconfirmed. Forbes is generally downbeat on autonomous driving:

 
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Lots of rumors this AM of layoffs at Waymo:


Posts on Blind indicate the layoffs affect the truck division, but this is unconfirmed. Forbes is generally downbeat on autonomous driving:


Alphabet is doing layoffs across the board. So these Waymo layoffs are likely just part of that.

It is interesting if it is true that the layoffs are from the truck division. Waymo Via does seem like an afterthought. All the attention seems to be on Waymo One. So I actually would not be too surprised if Waymo reduced Waymo Via in order to put more resources into Waymo One.

I did read that Forbes article. I find it too pessimistic. It seems every time there is some bad AV news, the AV doom and gloom crowd comes out. Yes, AVs were overhyped but now we are getting a more realistic view of things. But that does not mean, we should throw in the towel. Heck, if we gave up every time something was harder than we thought or did not meet our initial expectations, we would never invent any technology. Hopefully, we can take a more sober and realistic view of AV progress now. Hopefully, we can find that middle ground between hype and doom. AVs will scale, it will just longer than we thought, and the tech may look different than we thought. And it should also be noted that the author is the CEO of PolyMaths Robotics. So I think there is an agenda behind the article. It seems the article is designed to stealth promote his company.

Certainly, if the US economy goes into a big recession, that would negatively impact the autonomous driving industry. But I still see lots of potential for progress and growth in 2023: Waymo is planning to launch driverless in LA, Zoox is planning to launch their driverless vehicle, Cruise could expand their driverless areas and could launch the Origin, Aurora could launch their driverless trucking, and Mobileye could launch their robotaxis and continue to deploy SuperVision on more vehicles and brands. So there is still a lot of potential for AV progress in 2023.
 
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This is ~4 miles from LAX airport. So I think this is a strong hint that Waymo is planning to launch their LA ride-hailing service around the airport, similar to how the ride-hailing in downtown Phoenix services the Sky Harbor Train for the Phoenix airport. I think it is smart for Waymo to focus on airports. When Waymo does launch driverless ride-hailing to and from LAX that will be a great business model.
No way they venture into LAX this year without safety drivers. They don't even service Phoenix airport itself (just SkyTrain), and Sky Harbor airport is an order of magnitude easier than LAX.

The immobilized Waymo itself doesn't bother me, but backing traffic up a mile and a half is completely unacceptable. They have to figure out how to un-stick these cars within 1-2 minutes. On Reddit someone who has ridden in Waymo 300 times said 2 of her 65 driverless rides needed remote assistance to come, get in the car and drive it to her destination. The car stopped out of traffic both times, which is great, but a 3% failure rate is still several orders of magnitude too high.
 
No way they venture into LAX this year without safety drivers. They don't even service Phoenix airport itself (just SkyTrain), and Sky Harbor airport is an order of magnitude easier than LAX.

The immobilized Waymo itself doesn't bother me, but backing traffic up a mile and a half is completely unacceptable. They have to figure out how to un-stick these cars within 1-2 minutes. On Reddit someone who has ridden in Waymo 300 times said 2 of her 65 driverless rides needed remote assistance to come, get in the car and drive it to her destination. The car stopped out of traffic both times, which is great, but a 3% failure rate is still several orders of magnitude too high.

Maybe we should settle for an intermediate step of collision avoidance competency, but I am not sure about the other intelligence part.

Today's machine intelligence can deal with many new situations, but it still gets stuck and doesn't know what to do next. For humans, those are just effortless muscle-memory maneuvers that don't feel like taking up any "intelligence" at all.

Another example is it was able to stop itself from falling into the construction hole on the street but then it doesn't know what to do next:


That intelligence part still needs humans to bail them out.

I imagine machine intelligence can improve, but that will take lots of supercomputers bigger than a block of the street, and the car has to tow that load from behind in order to "think" clearly in situations where they got stuck!
 
No way they venture into LAX this year without safety drivers. They don't even service Phoenix airport itself (just SkyTrain), and Sky Harbor airport is an order of magnitude easier than LAX.

I think they could maybe do driverless to the parking lot or whatever that services LAX airport by end of 2023. That's 11 months away. Don't underestimate the power of ML. 11 months of ML training to get the planner good enough is not that crazy IMO. We've seen Waymo make very good progress with their ML in 2022.

The immobilized Waymo itself doesn't bother me, but backing traffic up a mile and a half is completely unacceptable. They have to figure out how to un-stick these cars within 1-2 minutes.

I agree about needing to unstick the car faster. I said the same thing about Cruise.

But I do have questions about what exactly happened. Did the Waymo computer crash like we've seen with Cruise? Did the Waymo suffer a mechanical failure that required a team to come get the car? Or did the Waymo software just struggle to navigate rush hour traffic and took too long? The solution will be different depending on the cause.

It looks to me from the pic, that the Waymo tried to merge in rush hour traffic and struggled to complete the maneuver because the path was blocked. If that is the case, then the answer is more ML training on the Planner. The fact is that AVs, like Waymo, still struggle too know how to cut in. They tend to wait for when the path is clear before moving. This can cause the AV to freeze if traffic is busy and nobody yields to the AV. This might be what happened in this situation. There was a video showing a Waymo doing a good job of cutting in, but I think it needs more training to handle cut ins better and avoid cases where it gets paralyzed when the path is blocked. Just my educated guess on what the problem might be.

Another example is it was able to stop itself from falling into the construction hole on the street but then it doesn't know what to do next:


I think part of the reason the Waymo did not know what to do next is because it perceived all paths to be blocked. Going forward was blocked by the hole. The sides and rear were blocked by people standing in the way. When an AV thinks all paths are blocked, it will likely wait for a path to open up which can result in the AV seemingly "freezing" if a path does not open. Like I said above, AVs need more training to know how to "force" their way, to make a clear path. One concern is that other vehicles and pedestrians will refuse to yield to AVs, causing them to get paralyzed when the path is blocked. So AVs will need to "force" their way sometimes.

You are correct that AVs like Waymo are very sophisticated but they still lack intelligence in some situations. AVs will only do what their NNs tell them to do. If they encounter a situation that the NNs don't know how to handle, the AVs will get "stuck".

But I don't think we will need huge supercomputers in the cars themselves. We will have big supercomputers, like DOJO, back at the facility to train the NN. Then the new NN will go in the car. The computers in the cars just need to run the NN, they don't need to train the NN. So the computers in the AVs don't need to be as big. I am confident that with more ML training, we will get AVs to better handle these situations where they get stuck.

And remember, we don't need AVs to handle everything 100%, we just need to get AVs to enough 9's that they are "good enough".

On Reddit someone who has ridden in Waymo 300 times said 2 of her 65 driverless rides needed remote assistance to come, get in the car and drive it to her destination. The car stopped out of traffic both times, which is great, but a 3% failure rate is still several orders of magnitude too high.

I definitely agree that a 3% failure is terrible and unacceptable. But is it really 3%? 65 rides is not a big sample.
 
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LinkedIn thread with posts from Waymo employees who have been let go. Several times Aurora recruiter replies and says they are hiring.

Another article on Waymo letting go of people:
Quotes:
In perhaps signs of the uneven AV business landscape, recruiters and friends pointed the freshly unemployed Waymo veterans to active openings at self-driving tech companies such as Cruise, ...
The company still has more than 700 vehicles in its fleet and more than 2,000 employees, the spokesperson said.
 
Waymo has been accepting alot of early riders recently.
No Driver. No NDA and the rides are completely free till Waymo gets paid driverless approval from CPUC.
Which is going to take a-couple more months because their application is currently suspended for further review until May 11th 2023.

Here is the current service area:

lg8990zdnwea1.jpg
 
Waymo has been accepting alot of early riders recently.
No Driver. No NDA and the rides are completely free till Waymo gets paid driverless approval from CPUC.
Which is going to take a-couple more months because their application is currently suspended for further review until May 11th 2023.

The fact that Waymo is accepting lots of early riders with no NDA is a very good sign. It shows confidence in the driving and that they can handle more demand.

Also, the reports I am seeing all say that the driving itself is very safe and smooth. The only complaints I am seeing are for things like an inconvenient pick up or drop off location, long wait time, or car going around a few times because the drop off location was blocked. So, it seems that at least in this ODD, Waymo has achieved very safe autonomous driving and they are only dealing with operational issues now.
 
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Wait ... I'm confused. I thought Waymo has been giving rides in SF for quite a while. What is new ?
As diplomat said, it looks like they are opening up doors to early riders from wait list (no NDA). They sort of have to at this point because the driverless paid permit won't be here for several more months. But at the same time they don't want many customers because the rides are free.


Also what you guys think of their full driverless geofence? (Available to employee riders but not public riders atm).
Blacked out roads are alley ways, dead ends, bridges and a particular subset of a freeway that they don't drive.

JaxS0K5.png
 
Also what you guys think of their full driverless geofence? (Available to employee riders but not public riders atm).
Blacked out parts are alley ways, dead ends, bridges and a particular subset of a freeway that they don't drive.

It is a very good geofence. It is basically all of SF. I think it is bigger than Cruise geofence which has more holes. I imagine Waymo will allow their public riders access to the full driverless geofence at some point, probably after they get the CPUC permit.
 
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It is a very good geofence. It is basically all of SF. I think it is bigger than Cruise geofence which has more holes. I imagine Waymo will allow their public riders access to the full driverless geofence at some point, probably after they get the CPUC permit.
I think they will allow full geofence after they hit their quality bars. I'm sure Waymo goes about these things more methodically ... and carefully.
 
It is a very good geofence. It is basically all of SF. I think it is bigger than Cruise geofence which has more holes. I imagine Waymo will allow their public riders access to the full driverless geofence at some point, probably after they get the CPUC permit.
Hopefully they keep expanding the wait-list and adding more cars to accommodate even though it’s free and they are losing money on charging/cleaning/etc.

It would be good for marketing till they get their permit
 
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