Waymo

[EVNow]

Btw that is exactly on spect 3k per day per city. Almost mirrors Uber stats.

yes Uber is tremendously expensive, its why nobody really commutes with Uber if they do it is usually the result of another TaaS utilization factor- parking, entertainment, travel. Oh, I hear some companies reimburse Uber in which case I could see those rides being possible. You're in Seattle? Out of curiousity in a burb or downtown? What does it cost to book an uber in rush hour from the Everett to downtown? I think it is $80 bucks but that is?? accurate??

I've to check. I live in eastern suburbs - and to my home from the airport is almost $90. So, when I fly I've to figure out whether its better to get Uber (~200 two ways) vs airport shuttle (almost same price) or car parking (some $30 a day with fees).

BTW, some companies like Facebook do give shared Uber cost. But that comes as a taxable benefit - so you are going to be paying some 40% to 50% depending on your bracket.

$160 to commute? *220 is $35k a year. Wow, even if working from home half the days that would still be 17k. Huh....So if Tesla came in at 1/4 of that or roughly 9k to commute or 4k if working half time at home, hmmm that's still quite a bit of money.

What do you think? Do you think wider EVs rollout or RTs is the way to go?

I think currently Uber/Lyft are really for one off trips to the city or when you travel and don't want to rent a car. I've done that often - and since except the airport to city charges are < say $15, Uber/Lyft become easy. In India I was using ride hailing almost exclusively and ofcourse for us it is cheap there.

In terms of EV rollout vs RT - its really a question of time. RT is highly risky - in terms of both the timing and business model. So, definitely Tesla should concentrate on EV rollout, while continuing to pursue RT, instead of going all in on risky adventures. Elon may not care about taking risks (I think it gives him a "high") but almost everyone else does. You want to take reasonable risks - not a "super drug that may or may not work" kind of risk.

Put it another way - Google didn't give up on their search / ad / youtube for Waymo.

 

[Doggydogworld]

and as I keep saying, the CPUC has stated that the testing permit is a prerequisite for their issued permit.

You are contradicting yourself. Your earlier message included this quote:

Additionally, both Cruise and Waymo possess an Autonomous Vehicle Deployment Program Permit issued by the California Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV). This DMV permit is a prerequisite for AV deployment and is distinct from the CPUC’s permit,

When operating under DMV testing permits Waymo reports incidents to DMV
When operating under both CPUC and DMV deployment permits they don't

 

[diplomat33]

Waymo accident with a black Toyota sedan on the 10 Freeway. No details yet but from the look of the damage on the Waymo, it appears that the Waymo was hit from behind by the Toyota.

 

[spacecoin]

Waymo accident with a black Toyota sedan on the 10 Freeway. No details yet but from the look of the damage on the Waymo, it appears that the Waymo was hit from behind by the Toyota.

Yeah, unless the Waymo was going in reverse the other driver is probably at fault...

 

[MP3Mike]

Yeah, unless the Waymo was going in reverse the other driver is probably at fault...

Unless the Waymo changed lanes into the other vehicle...

 

[Bitdepth]

An impressive demonstration of pose estimation and scene understanding by Waymo.

 

[spacecoin]

Phil Koopman wrote the following about this incident.

"A Waymo vehicle was involved in a serious crash in Los Angeles. Significant damage and an injured autonomous specialist (possibly acting as a safety driver). Reported details are incomplete, but include:
- Struck from behind by a vehicle going 86 mph in a 65 mph zone
- Waymo was in autonomous mode at the time of the crash
- The specialist on-board was experiencing back pain, which can be a real life-altering issue depending on resolution. Hopefully they recover quickly.
- The crash damage suggests a corner impact to the rear, so some lane changing (potentially on the part of the Waymo, but maybe not) could be involved.

It is essential that Waymo be transparent in explaining not only how the crash happened, but also what they plan to do to avoid the next one in a specific way. 20 mph speeding is not unexpected on that type of road.

This is going to be an easy one for Waymo to apply the "other driver blame" card on and try to sweep this under the rug as they so routinely do. But we also know that speed difference on highways is a safety issue, even if the slower car is going at the speed limit. For this to happen so early in their highway driving time in LA is a clear sign that they will have to come to grips with the speed limit vs. speed difference issue. I'm not saying this is easy, because it won't be. But a crash is a crash is a crash regardless of blame, and if they get too many crashes (even if 100% blame-free) they will still have too many crashes to be viewed favorably by the public in terms of safety."

 

[diplomat33]

- The crash damage suggests a corner impact to the rear, so some lane changing (potentially on the part of the Waymo, but maybe not) could be involved.

It is possible that the Waymo or the other car tried to lane change at the last second to try to avoid the impact but was not able to because of the other's car's high speed. It is impossible to say for sure without more details.

It is essential that Waymo be transparent in explaining not only how the crash happened, but also what they plan to do to avoid the next one in a specific way. 20 mph speeding is not unexpected on that type of road.

This is going to be an easy one for Waymo to apply the "other driver blame" card on and try to sweep this under the rug as they so routinely do. But we also know that speed difference on highways is a safety issue, even if the slower car is going at the speed limit. For this to happen so early in their highway driving time in LA is a clear sign that they will have to come to grips with the speed limit vs. speed difference issue. I'm not saying this is easy, because it won't be. But a crash is a crash is a crash regardless of blame, and if they get too many crashes (even if 100% blame-free) they will still have too many crashes to be viewed favorably by the public in terms of safety."

Agree 100%. Yes, the other car was speeding so the blame is clear. But simply blaming human drivers is not good enough. Waymo recently said that their new mission is being the world's most trusted driver. Well, they need to back that up with more transparency and not shift blame. As people know, I am a big Waymo fan but the recent viral incidents are concerning. Waymo can easily lose trust if more accidents happen.

 

[Doggydogworld]

Waymo recently said that their new mission is being the world's most trusted driver.

BTW, the old slogan was "world's most experienced driver". But Tesla FSD blows them away on that. All FSD miles are with a safety driver, of course, but that still counts as "experience". The shift to "most trusted" is an attempt to differentiate vs. FSD, especially leading up to 8/8 when I believe master showman Musk will livestream from the back seat of a driverless Cybercab as it navigates through traffic.

 

[flutas]

Add Waymo to the list.

US opens probe into Alphabet's Waymo over 'unexpected behavior' of self-driving vehicles:​

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-opens-probe-into-alphabets-waymo-over-performance-self-driving-vehicles-2024-05-14/

Key highlights

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) said its preliminary evaluation into an estimated 444 Waymo vehicles follows 22 reports of 22 incidents including 17 collisions.

The agency said in some of those cases the automated driving systems "appeared to disobey traffic safety control devices" and some crashes occurred shortly after the automated driving systems "exhibited unexpected behavior near traffic safety control devices."

NHTSA said all 22 incidents included either self-driving crashes or driverless vehicles that exhibited driving behavior that potentially violated traffic safety laws.

NHTSA also cited incidents "such as vehicles driving in opposing lanes with nearby oncoming traffic or entering construction zones."

 

[EVNow]

especially leading up to 8/8 when I believe master showman Musk will livestream from the back seat of a driverless Cybercab as it navigates through traffic.

I hadn't thought of that. Its quite possible they will show a video of a driverless Tesla RT driving for sometime. In well mapped easy areas in low traffic it can definitely do it for a while.

 

[diplomat33]

Add Waymo to the list.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-opens-probe-into-alphabets-waymo-over-performance-self-driving-vehicles-2024-05-14/

Key highlights

Makes perfect sense. NHTSA is just doing their job. When you have repeated incidents of Waymo AVs violating traffic laws, it requires an investigation. Hopefully, we get some more info.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Add Waymo to the list.

US opens probe into Alphabet's Waymo over 'unexpected behavior' of self-driving vehicles:​

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-opens-probe-into-alphabets-waymo-over-performance-self-driving-vehicles-2024-05-14/

Key highlights

Well, finally. Given NHTSA is taking issue with even L2 vehicles violating traffic laws, and given Waymo's violations are fairly well documented and reported, with would be bizarre for NHTSA to not investigate them also.

 

[Tam]

Add Waymo to the list.

US opens probe into Alphabet's Waymo over 'unexpected behavior' of self-driving vehicles:​

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-opens-probe-into-alphabets-waymo-over-performance-self-driving-vehicles-2024-05-14/

Key highlights

Robotaxis are exempted from being ticketed in CA so it's only fair that it needs to be investigated and held responsible.

 

[EVNow]

Robotaxis are exempted from being ticketed in CA so it's only fair that it needs to be investigated and held responsible.

CA has definitely bent over backwards to accommodate them - finally resulting in Cruise getting disgraced.

Effective regulation is needed to keep the companies honest. Otherwise they will keep pushing the boundaries until something breaks (see Uber, Cruise etc).

 

[MP3Mike]

It looks like this Waymo got charged with some high-proof electrons:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1790418513657807119

Surely, any human would get pulled over for driving under the influence if they drove like that.

It appears that @diplomat33 may be correct, and that they abended their HD maps, but don't have the replacement fully dialed-in yet. They certainly aren't driving on rails anymore.

 

[diplomat33]

It appears that @diplomat33 may be correct, and that they abended their HD maps, but don't have the replacement fully dialed-in yet. They certainly aren't driving on rails anymore.

Yes, I think this is another example that supports my thesis. If Waymo were driving "on rails" on the HD map, we would expect it to just stick dead center in the lane. The fact that it ping pongs in the lane is because the ML planner is given more freedom to maneuver. In this case, it looks like the ML planner wanted to pass the trailer. Presumably, the trailer was moving a bit slow and also the tree in the back was blocking the Waymo's sensors from seeing ahead. In any case, I think the ML planner wanted to get around the trailer. That ping pong behavior definitely looks to me like the planner was like "can I pass now? No. Can I pass now? No. Ok, can I pass now? No etc...". It saw that the right lane was a bike only lane so it was illegal to pass, but it kept looking for another opportunity to pass.

It was definitely awkward driving. Hopefully, it is straightforward to fix by just training the driving policy not to try to pass, especially if it knows it can't because the right lane is bike only. And yes, hopefully, we see Waymo retrain the ML planner to fix these issues. If I am right that Waymo is trying to be less dependent on HD maps and more reliant on the ML planner, then hopefully, once they fully "dial in" the planner, we should see a big leap in driving that is more generalized.

 

[JulienW]

So I stopped seeing Waymos driving around ATL a couple of weeks ago. Seemed odd to Map and run since maps are only as good as the current map. Was wondering what the plan is mapping and the leaving to come back at a latter time? So now it looks like Waymo is moving away from HD Maps??? Is Elon getting to them? Was concerned since I haven't seen any lately but maybe they no longer "need" to HD Map the streets. Wish they would make a commitment.

Odd since other than "playing" around what were they doing in ATL if they are not considering service here? They had already been here back in 2018 and we thought they were going to set up shop. They even did some weird semi-truck testing on the Permitter (*beltline, we just fancy pants with our naming) at the time.

*We have a Beltline but it is a 23 mile Pedestrian/bike path around the city core.

https://www.worktruckonline.com/279091/waymo-begins-autonomous-truck-test-program-in-atlanta

Google's Waymo expands to Atlanta to test self-driving cars

Google didn't provide specifics on the Atlanta rollout, set to provide another climate and conditions for testing.

www.zdnet.com

 

[diplomat33]

So I stopped seeing Waymos driving around ATL a couple of weeks ago. Seemed odd to Map and run since maps are only as good as the current map. Was wonder what the plan is mapping and the leaving to come back at a latter time? So now it looks like Waymo is moving away from HD Maps??? Is Elon getting to them? Was concerned since I haven't seen any lately but maybe they no longer "need" to HD Map the streets. Wish they would make a commitment.

Waymo will also drive manually just to collect data for training, not necessarily for mapping. That is what they did on their "road trip" to Bellevue and DC for example. So the driving in Atlanta may have been that.

And AFAIK, Waymo has not said anything about moving away from HD maps. I am speculating that Waymo is training the ML planner to "think" more on its own in order to be more generalized which some have taken to mean that Waymo is planning to ditch HD maps. And the recent behavior by Waymo trying to pass in the bike lane, turning into the oncoming lane, and making a sudden path change in the middle of an intersection, would seem to support the idea that Waymo is relying more in the ML planner and less on the HD map to make split decisions. But even if I am right, relying less on HD maps and ditching HD maps completely are two different things.

 

[enemji]

Just another day in SF?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1782143645057224930

SF = Planet of the Apes?