Western Canada Superchargers

[scottf200]

... I'm not sure a CCS adapter will ever come out though as the standard doesn't allow it. What the politics or legalities of building something out of a standard are I don't know but there must be consequences. ...

Not sure why CCS2 would be allowed but CCS1 would not? They are available in the EU.

Tesla launches $190 CCS adapter for new Model S and Model X, offers retrofits for older vehicles - Electrek

 

[Webeevdrivers]

Not sure why CCS2 would be allowed but CCS1 would not? They are available in the EU.

Tesla launches $190 CCS adapter for new Model S and Model X, offers retrofits for older vehicles - Electrek

Yah I have seen that and don't understand it myself but apparently on this side of the pond the adapter that is needed is not allowed by the standard. You'll have to wait for someone with a better industry knowledge than me on this one. There is probably more to it than meets the eye.

On edit, could it have something to do with hardware that EU Teslas have and NA Teslas don't????. No idea.

 

[MP3Mike]

Also, i'm not sure if a CCS adapter would be any faster than a Chademo adapter. Cooling etc.

The EU CCS adapter allows up to 120kW charging. So yeah, much faster than CHAdeMO.

Yah I have seen that and don't understand it myself but apparently on this side of the pond the adapter that is needed is not allowed by the standard.

My understanding is at least part of it is because the latching mechanism is different between Type1 and Type2 CCS. Type 1 the car has to latch the cable in place, in Type2 the cable latches itself to the car/adapter. So in the US with Type 1 there is no easy way to lock the cable on to the adapter. (It would require a powered adapter instead of a passive one.) But that is even before where some people that have read the Type 1 CCS standard have said that the standard specifically excludes adapters from being allowed. (Though I don't know why)

 

[Webeevdrivers]

The EU CCS adapter allows up to 120kW charging. So yeah, much faster than CHAdeMO.



My understanding is at least part of it is because the latching mechanism is different between Type1 and Type2 CCS. Type 1 the car has to latch the cable in place, in Type2 the cable latches itself to the car/adapter. So in the US with Type 1 there is no easy way to lock the cable on to the adapter. (It would require a powered adapter instead of a passive one.) But that is even before where some people that have read the Type 1 CCS standard have said that the standard specifically excludes adapters from being allowed. (Though I don't know why)

Yah I think that is what I recall. I can see maybe someday going forward Tesla could maybe just go to a modified CCS2 standard but again, totally above my paygrade for understanding the requirements.

The other thing is, at least for us, most of the CCS stations are also 50 KW except for some of the EC and Petrocan stations. So there wouldn't be much of an advantage going to a CCS adapter for us. Maybe they could speed up the Chademo adapter a bit. Who knows. In the meantime the Chademo is an absolute necessity for a BCer that wants to get off the main trans Canada route, us included. We literally couldn't have bought a Tesla without the chademo adapter being available. It was almost another leaf for us. Not a bad thing. Our first leaf was great, but glad we were able to get the Tesla instead. Still miss my heated steering wheel though.

Noticed yet another dual chademo, dual CCS station opened up in Nelson today. Kudos to the BC goverment for coordinating all this. If they can finish the corridor to Prince Rupert we are goinonaroadtrip. Woohoo

On edit. I think the Nelson station was there before. Looks like a duplicate on plugshare. Or maybe they twinned it. Dunno.

All the above JMHO

 

[Aphinity]

The other thing is, at least for us, most of the CCS stations are also 50 KW except for some of the EC and Petrocan stations. So there wouldn't be much of an advantage going to a CCS adapter for us. Maybe they could speed up the Chademo adapter a bit. Who knows.

ChaDeMo is physically restricted to 62.5kW. CCS Combo 1 has a theoretical limit of 350kW, so as more 3rd party chargers come out, you know they'll be trying to go higher and higher on the output to argue they are 'faster'. That means CCS Combo 1 is where we want to be if we want support on a 3rd party connector. Either that, or Tesla needs to license their connector to 3rd parties so they can start making money on the Tesla customers without adapters.

My guess is, Tesla doesn't want that, and wants a monopoly. That's arrogant, IMO, and I don't think they'll win that game. There are far more 3rd parties with more money than Tesla has to invest in chargers in this area. The very fact us Canadians, in messages above, all say that a ChaDeMo adapter is necessary in BC, shows this is already proving true.

 

[BR666T]

Noticed yet another dual chademo, dual CCS station opened up in Nelson today. Kudos to the BC goverment for coordinating all this. If they can finish the corridor to Prince Rupert we are goinonaroadtrip. Woohoo

On edit. I think the Nelson station was there before. Looks like a duplicate on plugshare. Or maybe they twinned it. Dunno.

I work for FortisBC, the local electric company that owns many of the DCFC stations on Highway 3 and other southern routes. The two stations in Nelson (each is a dual port CCS/CHAdeMO) were installed earlier this year.

 

[PLUS EV]

There are far more 3rd parties with more money than Tesla has to invest in chargers in this area.

Tesla has a market cap of USD277B. Tell me more about these 3rd parties with more money to invest than Tesla.

 

[MP3Mike]

My guess is, Tesla doesn't want that, and wants a monopoly. That's arrogant, IMO, and I don't think they'll win that game. There are far more 3rd parties with more money than Tesla has to invest in chargers in this area. The very fact us Canadians, in messages above, all say that a ChaDeMo adapter is necessary in BC, shows this is already proving true.

I don't think so. If that was the case why would Tesla provide the CHAdeMO adapter or make CCS standard on the EU vehicles. (Native on Model 3/Y and via an included adapter on S/X. And they provide a reasonably priced retrofit option for older EU S&X vehicles.) Also, they have said that Superchargers are not a profit center, so what would the goal of this monopoly be? To lose money?

It really comes down to no decent standard was available when Tesla launched in North America, CCS didn't exist and CHAdeMO didn't offer the power capability they wanted. So they had to go proprietary. And now there is too much of an installed base to make a change in North America. (Every Supercharge/Destination Charger/HPWC/Vehicle would need retrofits and/or adapters.)

The only reasonable solution is to get the standards body to allow an adapter, and then make one. But, IMO, the competition, which has majority control over the standard, doesn't want Tesla to be able to benefit from the CCS chargers.

 

[Aphinity]

I don't think so. If that was the case why would Tesla provide the CHAdeMO adapter or make CCS standard on the EU vehicles. (Native on Model 3/Y via an adapter on S/X.)

It really comes down to no decent standard was available when Tesla launched, CCS didn't exist and CHAdeMO didn't offer the power capability they wanted. So they had to go proprietary. And now there is too much of an installed base to make a change in North America. (Every Supercharge/Destination Charger/HPWC/Vehicle would need retrofits and/or adapters.)

A good point. I want to believe that is why, but not having plans for CCS combo 1 adapter (or not announcing it by now) seems to indicate otherwise, at least to me. They could have licensed or open-sourced their connector, too, but haven't.

 

[MP3Mike]

A good point. I want to believe that is why, but not having plans for CCS combo 1 adapter (or not announcing it by now) seems to indicate otherwise, at least to me.

How do you know they don't have plans? But can they really have plans for something that isn't allowed by the standard? Should they just say, we plan to produce a Type 1 CCS adapter as soon as, if ever, the standard allows it?

 

[Webeevdrivers]

I work for FortisBC, the local electric company that owns many of the DCFC stations on Highway 3 and other southern routes. The two stations in Nelson (each is a dual port CCS/CHAdeMO) were installed earlier this year.

Thanks for chiming in. Looks like someone duplicated the plugshare entry. I’ll let them know.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

ChaDeMo is physically restricted to 62.5kW. CCS Combo 1 has a theoretical limit of 350kW, so as more 3rd party chargers come out, you know they'll be trying to go higher and higher on the output to argue they are 'faster'. That means CCS Combo 1 is where we want to be if we want support on a 3rd party connector. Either that, or Tesla needs to license their connector to 3rd parties so they can start making money on the Tesla customers without adapters.

My guess is, Tesla doesn't want that, and wants a monopoly. That's arrogant, IMO, and I don't think they'll win that game. There are far more 3rd parties with more money than Tesla has to invest in chargers in this area. The very fact us Canadians, in messages above, all say that a ChaDeMo adapter is necessary in BC, shows this is already proving true.

Interesting. The way I understand it the Petrocan stations as well as some EVGO and Chargepoint stations are advertised as 100 KW stations. As well, new leafs are rated at 100 kw charge ratings and there are images of them charging at 72 ish kw. Is there a second Chademo standard in play here?

 

[BR666T]

Thanks for chiming in. Looks like someone duplicated the plugshare entry. I’ll let them know.

You're right. I'll get this fixed (unless you beat me to it). Thanks for the tip!

 

[Webeevdrivers]

You're right. I'll get this fixed (unless you beat me to it). Thanks for the tip!

No worries. I sent plugshare a message but you probably have a more direct route.

Hey. While I have your attention. It has been discussed here that Chademo max charge rate is 62.5 KW. I know Fortis and BC hydro do 50 KW sites but I see Petrocan, EVgo etc doing 100 KW stations. I know Nissan Leafs are rated at 100 KW and some of the users on the leaf forum routinely see 70 ish kw charge rates. Are you knowledgeable in this area and would you care to comment? The Wikipedia is kinda vague on wether the new 400 kw max number requires any changes.
Thanks in advance.

 

[BR666T]

[QUOTE=" I have your attention. It has been discussed here that Chademo max charge rate is 62.5 KW. I know Fortis and BC hydro do 50 KW sites but I see Petrocan, EVgo etc doing 100 KW stations. I know Nissan Leafs are rated at 100 KW and some of the users on the leaf forum routinely see 70 ish kw charge rates. Are you knowledgeable in this area and would you care to comment? The Wikipedia is kinda vague on wether the new 400 kw max number requires any changes.
Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]

We are planning to install several 100 kW stations early next year (at existing locations). I cannot say with certainty what CHAdeMO rate they will support, but I suspect it will be the 72 kW that you are referencing. CCS should support the full 100 kW, so an adapter can't come soon enough!

 

[Webeevdrivers]

[QUOTE=" I have your attention. It has been discussed here that Chademo max charge rate is 62.5 KW. I know Fortis and BC hydro do 50 KW sites but I see Petrocan, EVgo etc doing 100 KW stations. I know Nissan Leafs are rated at 100 KW and some of the users on the leaf forum routinely see 70 ish kw charge rates. Are you knowledgeable in this area and would you care to comment? The Wikipedia is kinda vague on wether the new 400 kw max number requires any changes.
Thanks in advance.

We are planning to install several 100 kW stations early next year (at existing locations). I cannot say with certainty what CHAdeMO rate they will support, but I suspect it will be the 72 kW that you are referencing. CCS should support the full 100 kW, so an adapter can't come soon enough![/QUOTE]

Thanks for the reply.

I have never seen a discussion on wether the chademo connector thruput can be increased or not. Even a 50 percent increase would be nice.

Cheers.

 

[PLUS EV]

Tesla Chademo adapter is 50kW max.

In other news, this thread has veered way off topic.

 

[scottf200]

On edit, could it have something to do with hardware that EU Teslas have and NA Teslas don't????. No idea.

Sounds like any S or X after May 1, 2019 has the hardware changes to me. Also below from the article, there are retrofits being offered.

This week, Tesla updated its European Supercharger support page to confirm that all Model S and Model X vehicles produced after May 1, 2019 are compatible with the new adapter:

“All Tesla Model S and Model X vehicles produced after May 1, 2019 have the technical capability to charge at CCS Combo 2 charging sites with the use of a CCS Combo 2 adapter.”

There’s apparently a hardware change that is needed to work with the new CCS adapter.
For existing Tesla owners, the automaker says that it will offer retrofits for older Model S and Model X to work with the new adapter starting on June 1.
The company says that the “CCS Combo 2 retrofit service will cost €500” and it will include the adapter, which will cost €170 for new owners.

 

[theredviper]

Yikes, didn't know Merritt could be so busy!! I usually skip over it and use Hope/Kelowna. Wonder if those are all SR+ or something? The one time I've been there, we were the only ones there in the middle of the day.

Honestly makes me a bit sad (for myself). Don't really want to head to the coast or Vancouver Island if there's hour-long lineups at the chargers. There's a pretty big difference between two 30 minute charges (1hr) and a two charge+waits (3hr?) for an otherwise 5h drive. This actually encourages me to take our gas vehicle.

I think it's the SR+ issue, they can't make it further than Merritt. Perhaps a boost in Hope would get them to Kelowna or Kamloops.

It would be nice if Merrit could go to 250kW, or get more V2 stalls.

 

[theredviper]

+1 on the CHAdeMO adapter. It opens up a lot of backup options in case of full or out-of-service Superchargers. I bought one just to keep in the frunk for trips. I didn't have to use it a single time (aside from an unnecessary test) on a recent 13,000 mile trip in the US, but it was nice to have the peace of mind.

Chademo is great in BC, and often the stops are more scenic. Manning Park is a great one (though busy). Hope Slide is kind of cool, and there are 2 there so almost always available.