What’s the best Charge Percent

[darth_vad3r]

We ordered a new M3. We drive about 20 miles a day and 40 on Wednesday’s.

What’s the best way to charge to minimize battery degradation.

Charge to 90% one time and run it down to 30 over multiple days. Or charge to like 50/60% each night?

Thanks

What did you learn from the manual about this topic?

From in the car: Service -> Owners Manual -> Charging -> Battery Information

Or the online manual, page 124 of the PDF (page 122):
https://www.tesla.com/content/dam/tesla/Ownership/Own/Model 3 Owners Manual.pdf#page=124

 

[Buddy]

What did you learn from the manual about this topic?

From in the car: Service -> Owners Manual -> Charging -> Battery Information

View attachment 443485

Or the online manual, page 124 of the PDF (page 122):
https://www.tesla.com/content/dam/tesla/Ownership/Own/Model 3 Owners Manual.pdf#page=124

ALERT: someone used the manual to Ctually back up what they are saying.

MODS, delete ASAP!

 

[Manitoba Keith]

Or in the 2019 manual D/L, page 129 (130) Just search for "Battery Information"

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

What did you learn from the manual about this topic?

From in the car: Service -> Owners Manual -> Charging -> Battery Information

View attachment 443485

Or the online manual, page 124 of the PDF (page 122):
https://www.tesla.com/content/dam/tesla/Ownership/Own/Model 3 Owners Manual.pdf#page=124

ALERT: someone used the manual to Ctually back up what they are saying.

MODS, delete ASAP!

Note, however, that this does not answer anything about the OP’s actual question about what % to charge to. And the title of the thread...

 

[Dr. J]

Note, however, that this does not answer anything about the OP’s actual question about what % to charge to. And the title of the thread...

Au contraire!

What’s the best way to charge to minimize battery degradation.

From in the car: Service -> Owners Manual -> Charging -> Battery Information
.....
"When plugged in, Model 3 wakes up when needed to automatically maintain a charge level that maximizes the lifetime of the battery."

Since the car won't squawk at any charging level between 50% and 90% (IIRC), all such charging levels are equally valid, per the manual. QED.

Edit: Assuming the two bold faced phrases are functionally equivalent. Which now that I think about it, they may not be.

 

[JulienW]

I'm a beast and always do 110%.

 

[darth_vad3r]

You can polish a turd battery all you want, but it won’t help it shine. You just have to cross your fingers and hope you don’t get unlucky.

... but the Mythbusters polished a real turd

 

[ewoodrick]

Tesla says to plug it in every night. They do not allow you to ever charge to less than 50%, and you are not allowed to routinely charge over 90% (car tells you not to if you try).

Say what? You mean the car won't allow me to unplug the charger when it is only at 30%?
How does it keep you from routinely charging over 90%? A nag is just a nag, it's not enforced. Mainly because there are times and conditions for which charging routinely to 100% is fully supported. Matter of fact, there's not really much, if anything, that you can do to the battery that isn't supported.

 

[darth_vad3r]

Note, however, that this does not answer anything about the OP’s actual question about what % to charge to. And the title of the thread...

Au contraire!
[…]
Since the car won't squawk at any charging level between 50% and 90% (IIRC), all such charging levels are equally valid, per the manual. QED.

Edit: Assuming the two bold faced phrases are functionally equivalent. Which now that I think about it, they may not be.

Yes, that... but the OP actually also asked this:

What’s the best way to charge to minimize battery degradation.

Charge to 90% one time and run it down to 30 over multiple days. Or charge to like 50/60% each night?

...and the manual clearly answers that running it down is not advantageous. I underlined that answer

 

[ewoodrick]

What did you learn from the manual about this topic?

From in the car: Service -> Owners Manual -> Charging -> Battery Information

View attachment 443485

Or the online manual, page 124 of the PDF (page 122):
https://www.tesla.com/content/dam/tesla/Ownership/Own/Model 3 Owners Manual.pdf#page=124

Question: How can I drive if I leave the car plugged in?
I work at a location that doesn't have a plug. Does this mean that I can't use the car to go to work?

I certainly hope that you don't tell me that something in the manual isn't 100% correct.

 

[darth_vad3r]

Question: How can I drive if I leave the car plugged in?
I work at a location that doesn't have a plug. Does this mean that I can't use the car to go to work?

I certainly hope that you don't tell me that something in the manual isn't 100% correct.

Read the manual smarty pants. It says to leave it plugged in when you are not using it. If you can’t, you can’t. If you CAN, you should. It’s simple. Follow the advice if you can, if you choose to ignore the advice when you could follow it, you should be forewarned that you are doing so. If you don’t read the manual you might not know this or read random crap posted on the forums.

The manual says:

• The most important way to preserve the Battery is to LEAVE YOUR VEHICLE PLUGGED IN when you are not using it.
• This is particularly important if you are not planning to drive Model 3 for several weeks.
• There is no advantage to waiting until the Battery’s level is low before charging. In fact, the Battery performs best when charged regularly.

 

[ewoodrick]

We ordered a new M3. We drive about 20 miles a day and 40 on Wednesday’s.

What’s the best way to charge to minimize battery degradation.

Charge to 90% one time and run it down to 30 over multiple days. Or charge to like 50/60% each night?

Thanks

Charge to 80-90%. Plug in as you feel. Don't routinely let it run really low.Every few months, charge to 100%. Preferably take a long trip and actually use the car.
Charging to 100% DOES NOT DAMAGE the battery. Do it when you need to.

This comes from 5 years of EV usage, and batteries with extremely low degradation.

But, ABSOLUTELY, don't worry about the battery. That's the last thing that Tesla wants you to do. Tesla doesn't build the car so that you have to babysit is. How many chapters are in the manual and car and feeding of the battery? Heck, how many words? If you needed to worry about it, they'd let you know.

Enjoy car, charge as you need to.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Since the car won't squawk at any charging level between 50% and 90% (IIRC), all such charging levels are equally valid, per the manual. QED.

Which is what I mentioned earlier.

Say what? You mean the car won't allow me to unplug the charger when it is only at 30%?

You are being a bit pedantic here. The fact is that if you plug your car in regularly when it is not in use it will be charged between 50% and 90%.

How does it keep you from routinely charging over 90%? A nag is just a nag, it's not enforced.

Sure. I don’t have the exact verbiage, but the warning explicitly mentions degradation if you charge above 90% multiple times in a row. Up to you though, you do you...if you need to do it, you need to do it.

As I said earlier, all of this is likely pedantic nonsense anyway: unless you constantly charge to 100% and leave the battery at 0%, you’re much more likely to be a victim of a turd of a battery than you are to see degradation due to your charging habits. Mostly, you just have to not be unlucky and get a defective battery. And there is really nothing you can do about that except to hope your battery fails ASAP. Turd polishing is rarely effective.

So just follow Tesla’s recommendations, and any highly optimized details of charging habits beyond those recommendations will likely produce...noise...having no actual significant effect on longevity. Just hope your battery left Gigafactory on a good day and then you will be good.

 

[bwilson4web]

My approach is based upon local cities that have been past, day trips:

• Nashville
• Chattanooga
• Birmingham

• 120 miles covers the day trip cities, 120/240 ~= 50% (Std. Range Plus Model 3, 240 miles)
• 30 miles reserve, 30/240 ~= 12.5%
• 150 miles overnight charge, ~63%

If we decide to do a day trip, the car is ready to go. Furthermore, there are technical reasons described in this article:
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

Notice the similarity to my measurements of a full charge at a SuperCharger:

So the 150 miles (63%) matches the same, peak charging range of the battery. It is also just under the 60 kW threshold between Tier 1 and Tier 2.

Now if we are going further for a vacation or overnight trip, we fully charge the car at night for a maximum range drive minus the 30 mile reserve, ~210 miles. Thereafter, we use 80-130 mile target ranges between SuperChargers for quick charges and back on the road.

Bob Wilson

 

[darth_vad3r]

My approach is based upon local cities that have been past, day trips:

• Nashville
• Chattanooga
• Birmingham

Which app or site are you using in that first screenshot? Looks like PlugShare but I couldn’t figure that out in the app, maybe I need to go to the website? [EDIT: I tried the site, thought maybe it’s under trip planner, but apparently you need 1200 pixels to start a trip, LOL... will have to wait til I’m on a computer I guess]

I like the idea of keeping the daytrips always in range. I have Superchargers in all compass directions for any daytrips, so if I went with that approach I’d just aim to keep the furthest one always in range. Hmm, I guess that’s only 130km ... less than 50% LOL. Oh the reserve, ok, plus 50km, well, let’s do 20%, so ... ok I’m above 50 now. 54%. Hmm.

Right now I do 90% so I can try to last all weekend without charging at home and charge at work on Mondays . LOL.

 

[bwilson4web]

Which app or site are you using in that first screenshot? Looks like PlugShare but I couldn’t figure that out in the app, . . .

It is PlugShare. I'm using the 'trip planner' that requires a minimum of 1,200 pixels. It isn't the easiest but it can add way-points for preferred routes. Built on Google Maps, it can also send the route via e-mail.

Bob Wilson

 

[darth_vad3r]

Sure. I don’t have the exact verbiage, but the warning explicitly mentions degradation if you charge above 90% multiple times in a row.

Yep I got the warning recently charging to 93% a few times in a row. I think 3.

The API shows this as ‘max_range_charge_counter’. I recall seeing it at 2 I think the last time I looked.

If you set the charge limit to 91% or higher and then charge, it ticks up from 0 to 1. It doesn’t seem to go back to 0 until you actually charge again with a limit 90% or lower, although, after I dismissed the warning by choosing the “lower limit now” option and chose a lower limit, that seems to have reset the counter — even though I have not actually charged since then ... so I wonder if just setting the limit lower other times might also reset the limit. Not sure. I don’t *think* it does because I thought I tried that a few times when I saw the counter at 1 in the past.

In any case, it definitely warns you that regularly charging beyond your daily needs is not the best for the longterm health of the battery. Something to that effect. Then you have a dismiss option or a lower limit now option.

 

[Candleflame]

wasnt there this survey a few years ago where Model S owners who regularly just charged to the non-long range limit (93%???) had the least range degradation?

 

[Tozz]

We ordered a new M3. We drive about 20 miles a day and 40 on Wednesday’s.
What’s the best way to charge to minimize battery degradation.
Charge to 90% one time and run it down to 30 over multiple days. Or charge to like 50/60% each night?
Thanks

This is very easy. A Lithium-Ion battery is most comfortable at 50% SoC. So ideally your SoC is 50%, always. But of-course, when you drive it goes down.

So, if your daily commute uses 20% SoC the best percentage to set charge limit is 60% so you drive from 60% to 40% and then charge to 60% again. If your daily commute uses 40% the best percentage is 70% so you go from 70% to 30% and back to 70%

There is a 'but'... The difference in health effect on the battery go down considerably when you keep it closer to 50%. For example:
The battery health difference in always charging to 90% instead of charging to 100% is pretty big.
The battery health difference in always charging to 80% instead of 90% is there, but considerably smaller.
The battery health difference between a default charge rate of 70% instead of 80% is probably close to irrelevant.
And battery health difference in charging to 60% instead of 70% is probably something you might not notice at all.

So, keep it to 50% as close as you comfortably can. It shouldn't be a hassle. For example, if you might be called away for an emergency that requires 70% SoC while you usually can do with 60%, I would always set it to charge to 70%. 'Just in case'.The difference in battery health in charging to 70% instead of 60% is so small, it's more for the fun of keeping your battery in best shape than it should be a requirement. If 80% or 90% feels more comfy, please just set it to 90%. The long term effect is minimal!

Additionally, when you live in a hot climate it's best to charge at night, when it's cooler. Li-Ion batteries prefer a temperature between 20 and 25 degrees Celsius. And yes, the car will cool the battery when required, but not down to 20-25 degrees.

 

[ewoodrick]

Which is what I mentioned earlier.



You are being a bit pedantic here. The fact is that if you plug your car in regularly when it is not in use it will be charged between 50% and 90%.



Sure. I don’t have the exact verbiage, but the warning explicitly mentions degradation if you charge above 90% multiple times in a row. Up to you though, you do you...if you need to do it, you need to do it.

As I said earlier, all of this is likely pedantic nonsense anyway: unless you constantly charge to 100% and leave the battery at 0%, you’re much more likely to be a victim of a turd of a battery than you are to see degradation due to your charging habits. Mostly, you just have to not be unlucky and get a defective battery. And there is really nothing you can do about that except to hope your battery fails ASAP. Turd polishing is rarely effective.

So just follow Tesla’s recommendations, and any highly optimized details of charging habits beyond those recommendations will likely produce...noise...having no actual significant effect on longevity. Just hope your battery left Gigafactory on a good day and then you will be good.

Me pedantic? You were the one that stated just because the software allows 50-90%, then all of them are equally valid. That's a really long stretch. So what makes 50% valid and 49% invalid. That's just a software setting.

Everyone keeps coming up with all sorts of rules and crap. Don't worry about the battery.