What is best for the battery?

[MentalNomad]

Why are there so many restrictions on Tesla battery? I have not heard of a single thing on Fiat, VW, Bolt, BMW etc on so many restrictions.

There are no restrictions discussed in this thread. None. People are talking about how to baby their battery if they want to.

Interesting, so there very best way to maintain the battery is to keep it plugged in, set the upper charger level to 50%, and never drive it!

Well, yes. But you can always say that about any car. If you never drive it, you dramatically increase the life of the car.

They're obsessive practices that will have no practical difference over the usual lifespan of owning a Tesla. If a possible difference of a couple of miles of range after many years will really matter to you, then you bought too small of a battery.

This isn't necessarily about practical differences. Some people are curious about what is optimal. Some people want to baby their battery. They're allowed to want to do that, and to discuss it. If you're not interested, skip this thread instead of coming in to complain you think they should have spent more money.

 

[ralph142]

Iirc Elon said the model three batteries were rated for 1500 cycles. Usually that means degradation to some fixed percentage, like 70% or so. If you completed one 100-0 discharge cycle every week it would take 30 years to do 1500. I imagine this is what he’s getting at when he says charging to 90 or 80 doesn’t make much difference, how many of us have kept a car for 10 years, much less thirty?

 

[TexasEV]

This isn't necessarily about practical differences. Some people are curious about what is optimal. Some people want to baby their battery. They're allowed to want to do that, and to discuss it. If you're not interested, skip this thread instead of coming in to complain you think they should have spent more money.

The shorter range car is not an appropriate tool for every use. If someone is cutting it that close on range that a couple of miles matters, they’re not going to be happy with the car. Stuff happens, such as weather, detours, unexpected change in plans, etc. Just like the owner who tweeted Elon above about needing to charge to 100% every night. The model she bought wasn’t really suited to her needs. I’m not complaining that she should have spent more money— I’m informing potential owners not to make the same expensive mistake, and informing current owners with an appropriate sized battery that they don’t have to baby the battery.

 

[Dan123]

My questions are:

• Assuming I can charge every day
  • Is charging at a lower amperage better for the battery health (thinking: less heat, lower stress)
    • eg, should I recharge at 8 or 10 amps instead of 30+ because I am at the office for >8 hours -- so don't need to 'rush' the charge at full L2 speed.

8, 10, 30 amps are all really low to make any difference. Even 40-50 is not going to put any stress on the battery. So I would use whatever is convenient for you, and whatever works best for your home's electrical system.

• I use 80 miles of range per day
  • Should I charge every day to get it back into the 70-90% charge range or wait until I am in the 30-50% range and then charge (eg, every ~3-4 days vs daily)

I personally only charge once a week, and let it drop to 30-40%. If you are in a hot/cold climate where the car needs to cool/heat the battery, I can see that plugging in daily would help use less battery power and use grid power for battery conditioning. But otherwise, I don't see a big benefit of plugging in daily.

 

[TexasEV]

I personally only charge once a week, and let it drop to 30-40%. If you are in a hot/cold climate where the car needs to cool/heat the battery, I can see that plugging in daily would help use less battery power and use grid power for battery conditioning. But otherwise, I don't see a big benefit of plugging in daily.

Other than following Tesla’s explicit advice in the owners manual. Maybe there’s something they know that you (and I) don’t?

 

[ngogas]

Do you also gas up your gas car 50% of the way?! Lol

 

[super20g]

how many of us have kept a car for 10 years, much less thirty?

I generally drive cars for 8-10 years before getting something new but keep the old vehicles and still maintain and drive them intermittently.

 

[ebmcs03]

how many of us have kept a car for 10 years, much less thirty?

Longest car I’ve kept. 5 yrs. shortest. 1.5.

 

[pscarroll]

I drove my Toyota Pickup for about 20 years, then drove a Toyota Tacoma for 20 years, then I bought a Tesla Model 3 performance and plan to keep it 10-20 years, perhaps longer. Of course, that's assuming Tesla can fix my computer as it's dead as a doornail right now.

 

[ebmcs03]

I drove my Toyota Pickup for about 20 years, then drove a Toyota Tacoma for 20 years, then I bought a Tesla Model 3 performance and plan to keep it 10-20 years, perhaps longer. Of course, that's assuming Tesla can fix my computer as it's dead as a doornail right now.

Did you buy any other cars to enjoy? 3 cars in a lifetime only?

 

[pscarroll]

No, only have one vehicle at a time, I keep them long term. Hopefully Tesla's live up to their promise, so far their batteries have stood up as reported elsewhere, best batteries in the business. Now their other hardware...

 

[shifteru]

Oh. Why is it no bid deal? Is it because the standard range plus is just a LR or MR software lock?

Not that I'm aware of. SR looks like it's going to be SR+ locked, but SR+ is the larger pack with less cells, so charging to 100% would have the same (negligible or otherwise) downsides.

I think what Elon is saying is 90-95% is fine regardless of which model you have. The real reason to not charge to 100% is more that you'll lose regen braking and the efficiency that comes with it.

 

[SmartElectric]

Why are there so many restrictions on Tesla battery? I have not heard of a single thing on Fiat, VW, Bolt, BMW etc on so many restrictions.

I've owned three EV's.

Tesla has outstanding battery management, our 2013 Model S has 97%+ original capacity after 130000 km, and hasn't lost anything in 4 years (the 2.5% loss all happened in the first 2 years, and no change since).
We charge Tesla S to 90% daily, and 100% before many weekends as most of our driving in that car is on Sat/Sun.

My 2013 Smart ED had 99% original battery capacity when I traded for my 2018 Smart ED.
Smart doesn't have any way to limit charge, so I charged to 100% daily for 1500+ straight days on my original, and now 400 days on my new car.

Some manufacturers (like Smart) artificially limit the capacity available, to avoid excess battery degradation, keeping the top 10% or so of the cell Voltage (capacity) unavailable. Smart does this, so while I am charging to an indicated 100%, the actual capacity of the battery cells is much larger than can be used.

Whereas Tesla allows a greater use of it's cells, to the point where they have a slider allowing a percentage maximum charge. Some keep it no more 80% under the belief this will help longevity, but my direct experience has shown that 90% is also a potentially reasonable value for the maximum daily. 100% maximum is useful for getting the most range for long road trips, and we routinely supercharge to 95% - 100% if we are having lunch and have an hour to spare on the trip, otherwise we stop charging at 80% and move on as we got the best charging rates when battery is lower on charge.

Which is all to say DONT SWEAT IT!

 

[ngogas]

Elon suggested to daily at 90 as well. Else bms may calculate a lower amount of mileage when going to 100. Will take a few cycle to recalibrate the calculation is what I recall.

 

[Knightshade]

To crush ICE vehicles, see them driven far behind you, and to hear the lamentation of their tailpipes.


(I can't be the only person whose mind goes here anytime they here a question starting with What is best, right?)

 

[woodisgood]

For those that are interested in babying the battery, this has been our regimen and experience over 20K miles. It's just what we've done because it fit our commuting needs and our electrical system, not because we had any intention of babying the battery. But it appears it has been fairly optimal for the battery based on the fact a 100% charge shows 324 miles of range after 9 months and 20K. Maybe that is a flawed method for determining battery degradation but I don't have TeslaFi.

It's a long-commute car, so the routine doesn't have much variation to it.

Every weekday:
The car begins the morning at 85%. It then makes the 55mi commute and sits at ~65% for around 11 hours. It then comes home and sits at ~45% for 5 hours. Then we charge at 24A (30A circuit) for around 4-5h until just before morning commute, spending maybe just an hour at 85%. Weekends are variable, during which the battery probably spends a little more time sitting at 85%.

The three highlights of the routine above:
1) SOC is almost never above 90%, has almost never been below 30%, never close to 0%. It has been charged to 100% three times in its life and immediately driven.
2) The battery spends the bulk of its "life" around 65% and 45% SOC (or charging overnight).
3) The charging is never supercharging. In fact the battery has never been supercharged.

I wouldn't know which of the factors above is most important but in concert they've resulted in negligible degradation to this point (again, if miles at 100% SOC is a reliable indicator of that).

 

[David99]

People are spending way too much time trying to find the absolute optimal solution to maximize battery longevity.

While I agree there is little difference in battery degradation in the long run, people still like to do it. It is their car and it brings them joy to take care of it. It's the same as washing the car, waxing it, taking care of the interior, doing all kinds of things to keep the car nice and working well. I have not heard a single person saying, 'stop worrying about your paint, just drive it' when the question about how to wash the car has been brought up.

 

[David99]

Iirc Elon said the model three batteries were rated for 1500 cycles. Usually that means degradation to some fixed percentage, like 70% or so. If you completed one 100-0 discharge cycle every week it would take 30 years to do 1500. I imagine this is what he’s getting at when he says charging to 90 or 80 doesn’t make much difference, how many of us have kept a car for 10 years, much less thirty?

Some people drive more. I have aprox 1200 cycles on my Model S battery in 5 years and it has 12% degradation. The commonly accepted point where the life of a battery is considered at the end is at 80% of it's original capacity (20% degradation). I would hope the Model 3 battery will be better than that after 1500 cycles.

 

[woodisgood]

The other point about babying the battery is potentially resale. Now personally we probably plan to keep our Model 3 til it dies, but were I to purchase a pre-owned Tesla (and will probably do so in the next two years with a Model X), I'd be interested to know the range at 100% charge. There is a big difference between say, 10% and 20% degradation in terms of usable range.

And yeah, were I to purchase from an individual, a battery baby-er would make an attractive seller.

 

[skrtskrt]

I charge to 90% everynight because I love mashing the pedal whenever I get the chance lol


Does anyone know if below a certain %, the car becomes slower?

Is 75-90% the same power? I noticed just a little.