What is the closest fuel car in size to the Teslas?

[MontyFloyd]

What is the closest fuel car in size to the Teslas?
Finding approximate size for cost comparisons.

Looking at overall exterior dimensions, and approximate interior room too.
This web site gives some comparisons, but note they are mainly higher price cars (except for Toyota Camry XLE and Acura ILX, both under $29,000 ).
Are those fair comparisons? Should a Model 3 be considered a luxury car?

The closest in length to M3 (not do much searching for others) is
Mercedes C300 (184.5 inch)
Mercedes C350e (184.5 inch)
Tesla Model 3 Standard (185 inch)
Tesla Model 3 Long Range (185 inch)
BMW 230i Coupe (185 inch)
BMW M240i Coupe (185 inch)


Thanks

 

[Takumi]

What I remember growing up when I saw "luxury" car commercials were how quiet and smooth (NVH) the ride was. Materials used was also another. It was supposed to be a personal space of "calm" and "serenity" from the noisy outside world. Power was there too, but that seemed more like the cheaper cars touting they had more power than a luxury counterpart.

So I'd consider the Tesla as luxury especially since it does tick those boxes. The minimalist interior creates that calming effect and helps clear one's mind.

Do you think the "non-polluting" automobile was a luxury compared to the polluting horse? Why do you think Clara Ford (Henry Ford's wife), Thomas Edison's wife, & John D. Rockefeller's wife drove electric cars and not ICE cars?

A lot of people miss the point that time is a luxury. Not having to drive out of your way to the gas station is a luxury. Those people who argue that they don't want to wait to charge while on a road trip are probably the same people who buy out-of-warranty "luxury" cars. Those who can afford luxury and usually value their time most likely fly.

 

[drift]

What I remember growing up when I saw "luxury" car commercials were how quiet and smooth (NVH) the ride was. Materials used was also another. It was supposed to be a personal space of "calm" and "serenity" from the noisy outside world. Power was there too, but that seemed more like the cheaper cars touting they had more power than a luxury counterpart.

So I'd consider the Tesla as luxury especially since it does tick those boxes. The minimalist interior creates that calming effect and helps clear one's mind.

Do you think the "non-polluting" automobile was a luxury compared to the polluting horse? Why do you think Clara Ford (Henry Ford's wife), Thomas Edison's wife, & John D. Rockefeller's wife drove electric cars and not ICE cars?

A lot of people miss the point that time is a luxury. Not having to drive out of your way to the gas station is a luxury. Those people who argue that they don't want to wait to charge while on a road trip are probably the same people who buy out-of-warranty "luxury" cars. Those who can afford luxury and usually value their time most likely fly.

Actually the three women mentioned drove electric cars because the electric starter hadn't been invented yet and starting an ice vehicle was difficult and dangerous. You had to use a hand crank.

 

[Takumi]

Actually the three women mentioned drove electric cars because the electric starter hadn't been invented yet and starting an ice vehicle was difficult and dangerous. You had to use a hand crank.

You're right! Not having to crank or start the engine was a luxury. It still is! Especially when you want to preheat the cabin in a cold garage or keep the A/C on if your children are still napping in the car. I would also like to think not having to wonder if the engine will start on a very cold day is also a luxury.

 

[MontyFloyd]

What I remember growing up when I saw "luxury" car commercials were how quiet and smooth (NVH) the ride was. Materials used was also another. It was supposed to be a personal space of "calm" and "serenity" from the noisy outside world. Power was there too, but that seemed more like the cheaper cars touting they had more power than a luxury counterpart.

So I'd consider the Tesla as luxury especially since it does tick those boxes. The minimalist interior creates that calming effect and helps clear one's mind.

Do you think the "non-polluting" automobile was a luxury compared to the polluting horse? Why do you think Clara Ford (Henry Ford's wife), Thomas Edison's wife, & John D. Rockefeller's wife drove electric cars and not ICE cars?

A lot of people miss the point that time is a luxury. Not having to drive out of your way to the gas station is a luxury. Those people who argue that they don't want to wait to charge while on a road trip are probably the same people who buy out-of-warranty "luxury" cars. Those who can afford luxury and usually value their time most likely fly.

All good points, but then that would apply to the Corollas, Civics, Focus, and especially any truck!
Try to find a car today without power windows.

Let me restate my question:
What is it about a Tesla 3/Y (*withOUT FSD) that would make it Luxury when many other entry level cars have the same features (like heated seats, backup cameras, and even side view cameras).

 

[Takumi]

All good points, but then that would apply to the Corollas, Civics, Focus, and especially any truck!
Try to find a car today without power windows.

Let me restate my question:
What is it about a Tesla 3/Y (*withOUT FSD) that would make it Luxury when many other entry level cars have the same features (like heated seats, backup cameras, and even side view cameras).

You hit it on the head. "Luxury" cars are the vanguard of new tech. The very definition of Tesla.
Luxury is also more of a want rather than a need. Tesla definitely is a want.

I think the biggest reason why many consider Tesla to be non-luxury is because of their minimalist approach. This runs contrary to luxury being normally equated with excess. The panel gaps don't help either, but I think Tesla's working on it.

In short, Tesla ticks more boxes in luxury than not.

 

[MontyFloyd]

You hit it on the head. "Luxury" cars are the vanguard of new tech. The very definition of Tesla.
Luxury is also more of a want rather than a need. Tesla definitely is a want.

That is more ignorance than reality, but I can see that ignorance skewing the belief,

What I am saying is HBV and BEV have been around for well over 10 years, heck look at golf carts. Now almost all makers are making BEV, so that part is not unique any more.
And to argue the other new tech added can apply to most ICE cars as well (like remote starting of engine to cool car).

Most people need a car in USA, but might want the FSD option.
And that may be a sea change, the Wants are now by software, not hardware.

The only luxury item I can see out of a M 3/Y is the name, a band fee

I think the biggest reason why many consider Tesla to be non-luxury is because of their minimalist approach. This runs contrary to luxury being normally equated with excess. The panel gaps don't help either, but I think Tesla's working on it.

In short, Tesla ticks more boxes in luxury than not.

Yes, there is nothing in a M 3/Y that luxury has. I see an M3 no different than a Civic or Corolla.
And if an M3 is luxury, then so is a Civic or Corolla.

 

[Sandor]

That is more ignorance than reality, but I can see that ignorance skewing the belief,

What I am saying is HBV and BEV have been around for well over 10 years, heck look at golf carts. Now almost all makers are making BEV, so that part is not unique any more.
And to argue the other new tech added can apply to most ICE cars as well (like remote starting of engine to cool car).

Most people need a car in USA, but might want the FSD option.
And that may be a sea change, the Wants are now by software, not hardware.

The only luxury item I can see out of a M 3/Y is the name, a band fee


Yes, there is nothing in a M 3/Y that luxury has. I see an M3 no different than a Civic or Corolla.
And if an M3 is luxury, then so is a Civic or Corolla.

Honestly, as I saw that you are planning to get a Tesla soon, I suggest renting one (3 or Y) for a weekend on Turo, drive few hundred miles in it and I'm fairly sure you'll get your answer. Either way it will go, it will be your own judgement at that point....

 

[Takumi]

That is more ignorance than reality, but I can see that ignorance skewing the belief,

What I am saying is HBV and BEV have been around for well over 10 years, heck look at golf carts. Now almost all makers are making BEV, so that part is not unique any more.
And to argue the other new tech added can apply to most ICE cars as well (like remote starting of engine to cool car).

Most people need a car in USA, but might want the FSD option.
And that may be a sea change, the Wants are now by software, not hardware.

The only luxury item I can see out of a M 3/Y is the name, a band fee


Yes, there is nothing in a M 3/Y that luxury has. I see an M3 no different than a Civic or Corolla.
And if an M3 is luxury, then so is a Civic or Corolla.

So why do you consider MB/BMW luxury? What makes them different from a Civic or Corolla?

 

[MontyFloyd]

Honestly, as I saw that you are planning to get a Tesla soon, I suggest renting one (3 or Y) for a weekend on Turo, drive few hundred miles in it and I'm fairly sure you'll get your answer. Either way it will go, it will be your own judgement at that point....

This is honestly for a friend.
Also a bit of philosophical question.

So why do you consider MB/BMW luxury? What makes them different from a Civic or Corolla?

MB does have luxurious features, bigger engines, the first in adding gadgets.

BMW, yes, harder to discern. They are a more performance type vehicle, paying more for fast acceleration, top speed, handling, ride performance.

I do not think a Tesla has reputation as a "drivers car", just incredibly fast from 0.

 

[Takumi]

This is honestly for a friend.
Also a bit of philosophical question.

MB does have luxurious features, bigger engines, the first in adding gadgets.

BMW, yes, harder to discern. They are a more performance type vehicle, paying more for fast acceleration, top speed, handling, ride performance.

I do not think a Tesla has reputation as a "drivers car", just incredibly fast from 0.

Interesting...

2021 Japan EV Grand Prix

2021 Pike's Peak

Nurburgring

You still haven't answered the question. What luxury features differentiate MB/BMW from a Civic or a Corolla? What you typed puts Tesla squarely where you described a luxury car to be.

As for being a "driver's car," I'll leave that up to the driver. I trust a pro driver's opinion over an amateur.

 

[MontyFloyd]

What luxury features differentiate MB/BMW from a Civic or a Corolla? What you typed puts Tesla squarely where you described a luxury car to be.

I figured it out, it was obvious too, face palm for not seeing it earlier.

First of need to compare apples to apple.
And then the answer is simple: Price.

Civic or a Corolla will do all the MB/BMW can do, for a lot less, like 50~100% less.
A Nissan Leaf or M3 can do all a Taycan or MS can do, but for a lot less, about the same 50~100% less.

That extra bit of performance and status is what luxury is.

(granted an M3 is a performance monster even among EV's, that is a happy benefit from superior engineering, not for deliberate performance goal.)

 

[stcptl]

Interesting...

2021 Japan EV Grand Prix

2021 Pike's Peak

Nurburgring

You still haven't answered the question. What luxury features differentiate MB/BMW from a Civic or a Corolla? What you typed puts Tesla squarely where you described a luxury car to be.

As for being a "driver's car," I'll leave that up to the driver. I trust a pro driver's opinion over an amateur.

It is the comfort and convenience features, the quality, choice and placement of materials, the quietness and smoothness of the ride, think first class vs economy, though some makes considered luxury such as BMW and Porsche, veer more towards performance. Look at any high end Mercedes, BMW, Audi etc. Check out the reviews of the Mercedes EQS. If you are happy with sub five second 0 - 60 times, many reviewers are saying it is one of the if not the best car in the world, with as much or more real world range than the Model S.

 

[Calliope]

They're not luxury cars. They have had a mystique about they as ground-breaking technology, but the ride and the general comforts do not make it a luxury car. Neither does the price, frankly........I know that the $60K (or whatever they are in the US) seems like the price of a luxury car, but only when you compare it to ICE cars; in the world of EVs, a luxury car is in the $100K range, and Tesla 3s and Ys aren't priced like luxury EVs.

My Tesla Y needs better suspension, better seating comfort (with headrests that are not in the way of my hairstyle), a better turning circle, some type of HU display, a more user friendly console, cross-traffic warning, and a 360 degree camera before I'd call it luxury. It's fun to drive, but it's not a luxury drive.

 

[stcptl]

They're not luxury cars. They have had a mystique about they as ground-breaking technology, but the ride and the general comforts do not make it a luxury car. Neither does the price, frankly........I know that the $60K (or whatever they are in the US) seems like the price of a luxury car, but only when you compare it to ICE cars; in the world of EVs, a luxury car is in the $100K range, and Tesla 3s and Ys aren't priced like luxury EVs.

My Tesla Y needs better suspension, better seating comfort (with headrests that are not in the way of my hairstyle), a better turning circle, some type of HU display, a more user friendly console, cross-traffic warning, and a 360 degree camera before I'd call it luxury. It's fun to drive, but it's not a luxury drive.

That’s why we need price parity between ICE and EV. And we’ll get it soon. Then Tesla will have to up their game.

 

[Calliope]

That’s why we need price parity between ICE and EV. And we’ll get it soon.

Will we? Are batteries going to get cheaper, or are ICE cars going to get more expensive?

 

[RobDickinson]

Will we? Are batteries going to get cheaper, or are ICE cars going to get more expensive?

Both.

 

[BooMan]

All good points, but then that would apply to the Corollas, Civics, Focus, and especially any truck!
Try to find a car today without power windows.

Let me restate my question:
What is it about a Tesla 3/Y (*withOUT FSD) that would make it Luxury when many other entry level cars have the same features (like heated seats, backup cameras, and even side view cameras).

Tesla isn’t really luxury by traditional measures. Quality of build, materials, creature comforts, and quietness of cabin are all key hallmarks of luxury that Tesla doesn’t particular excel in )especially the first and last points). Teslas just cost the same as luxury cars. You are paying for tech not luxury. I would argue your typical civic, Nissans, or camary have all the features you mentioned and several more that you don’t have in any Tesla (eg 360 view).

 

[Takumi]

Tesla isn’t really luxury by traditional measures. Quality of build, materials, creature comforts, and quietness of cabin are all key hallmarks of luxury that Tesla doesn’t particular excel in )especially the first and last points). Teslas just cost the same as luxury cars. You are paying for tech not luxury. I would argue your typical civic, Nissans, or camary have all the features you mentioned and several more that you don’t have in any Tesla (eg 360 view).

Let's break it down so we don't run around in circles.

Time = money , but money =/= time. Luxury is essentially that - excess time, the most valuable commodity of all.

In economics, a luxury good is a good for which demand increases more than proportionally as income rises, so that expenditures on the good become a greater proportion of overall spending.

So, yes, Tesla is a luxury relative to where you start. Corollas are a luxury in the right conditions. Why are diamonds considered a luxury? Tulips? Objects of Desire.

If you're still having trouble. Then ask yourself, Why does a painting appreciate in value when the artist dies?

 

[Calliope]

Objects of Desire.

No......being an object of desire makes something worth a lot of money, but there are lots of things that cost a lot of money that aren't luxury, or luxurious. Supply and demand can artificially increase cost, but they don't increase quality.