What the Heck is up with Autopilot?

[JenniferQ]

I think it is now worse in stop and go traffic. If the car in front changes lanes it wants to follow that car and if it doesn't follow it , it will dart ahead to the next car in front in the same lane. If it does not see it fast enough there can be an accident.

On highway speeds it seems about the same as 7.0 since it uses lane markers over following the car in front like it does at very slow speeds.

This makes a lot of sense.

After a long drive today, I think I have figured out a bit of it. In 7.0, when I had Autosteer and TACC, or 'AP', activated on some residential roads, I remember one time it tried to follow a car as it made a 90º turn. Iirc, others had the same issue.

I think that now when on a freeway in FULL AP MODE (Autosteer and TACC engaged) it's doing the same thing. Several times in stop-and-go traffic lately it's turned the car in front blue and then tried to follow it as it changed lanes. I have to keep a firm grip on the wheel to override this. Additionally, I think that the right-lane bias is making it 'think' that cars in the right lane are actually in its lane and that's causing the weird braking issues.

Imo, this is a big setback from 7.0. I still love this car and can't wait to drive her everyday, but I really also hope that the patch comes very quickly to fix these serious issues. I feel like I knew 7.0s bugs and could manage them, but 7.1 is on a level that is not as easily mitigated.

Come on, engineers. Let's get this right soon.

 

[isaax]

@andyw2100 and @todd burch, I'm the poster of the video. My TACC didn't react at all for that particular incident with a distance set to 7. I don't see how that would be normal or improved over pre-7.1 updates as both of you stated. At a TACC distance set to 7 my car usually shows signs of slowing down really early. I am certain I would have rear ended that car if I didn't touch the brake. I suppose it can be difficult to gauge from watching that video, especially without audio. I had a buddy riding shotgun. I was telling him "It should've started slowing down by now" "ok, it's not slowing (then I tapped the brake to disengage TACC)" while my buddy was looking for a non-existent oh $h*t handle to grab on to.

 

[msnow]

Additionally, I think that the right-lane bias is making it 'think' that cars in the right lane are actually in its lane and that's causing the weird braking issues.

I have had this same exact thing happen twice now. This is dangerous.

 

[Todd Burch]

@andyw2100 and @todd burch, I'm the poster of the video. My TACC didn't react at all for that particular incident with a distance set to 7. I don't see how that would be normal or improved over pre-7.1 updates as both of you stated. At a TACC distance set to 7 my car usually shows signs of slowing down really early. I am certain I would have rear ended that car if I didn't touch the brake. I suppose it can be difficult to gauge from watching that video, especially without audio. I had a buddy riding shotgun. I was telling him "It should've started slowing down by now" "ok, it's not slowing (then I tapped the brake to disengage TACC)" while my buddy was looking for a non-existent oh $h*t handle to grab on to.

It's normal as in TACC has always acted that way.

Right about the time you intervened is about when the car would start tracking it and slowing down for it, which is how TACC has been acting since it first came out. Basically, when any car changes lanes and starts to cut in front of you, TACC usually takes a few seconds to start slowing down. It's always been like that. I'm not saying it *should* be like that, I'm just saying that's how it has been--it's not new to 7.1.

 

[Electroman]

Right about the time you intervened is about when the car would start tracking it and slowing down for it, which is how TACC has been acting since it first came out.

And if it didn't slow down and if you end up rear-ending like the other posted in a different thread, then you will be blamed for not understanding that AP is only a driver aid tool and you need to be in charge all the time.. yada yada yada

 

[kort677]

And if it didn't slow down and if you end up rear-ending like the other posted in a different thread, then you will be blamed for not understanding that AP is only a driver aid tool and you need to be in charge all the time.. yada yada yada

^^^this^^^
not only is it only an aide to driving it is a beta and you have been warned to be alert and ready to assume control at any moment.

I think that tesla shouldn't named it autopilot at this point because it makes many believe that the car can be autonomous, it would have been wiser to get a little less promo sizzle by calling the AP system what it really is, ASSISTED driving.
be alert and be safe while using the system

 

[jbcarioca]

^^^this^^^
not only is it only an aide to driving it is a beta and you have been warned to be alert and ready to assume control at any moment.

I think that tesla shouldn't named it autopilot at this point because it makes many believe that the car can be autonomous, it would have been wiser to get a little less promo sizzle by calling the AP system what it really is, ASSISTED driving.
be alert and be safe while using the system

The name 'autopilot' probably came from aviation. No certified IFR aircraft pilot would ever mistake an autopilot for autonomous flying. I think the word is quite precise and accurate, but may well be too technical for use among the general car driving population. It makes me sad to agree; I wish people would think about the actual meaning of words they use.

 

[Chasedrgc1223]

I always used to trust it and have confidence that it would eventually pick up the car and stop, but with my incident it definitely did not and was not going to. This is evidently clear since it likely triggered an AEB event, but I also slammed on the brakes and it definitely skidded with ABS activating. I know some will say it would have picked up the car and stopped (I certainly would if I saw this post), but I cannot highlight it enough that had I not intervened I would have hit the car.

 

[Lump]

Similar non autopilot bugs.

1. Same backup camara split screen, only happened once.

Rebooting daily hoping to fix a Bluetooth issue, car wouldn't switch to a diferent drivers bluetooth device & would display the last persons calendar, my wife would see my calendar & vice versa even though we were 20 miles apart, it would require disconnecting from a device that was in a different city.
2. Yesterday, fast forwarding Slacker from the steering wheel wasn't functioning but worked fine from the touchscreen, fast forwarding media on my iPhone was unaffected.
3. Having just rebooted map tiles were not being displayed during a 15 mile drive...(to the service center)
4. Voice command not available.

Since I have been having MCU problems for over 6 months, yesterday out of frustration I drove to the service center so they can see for them selves & not waist time on the phone describing my issues & then being told my logs don't show anything wrong, rebooting isn't helping so I suggesting reinstalling the firmware thinking mine was an isolated case, we now have multiple reports.

 

[isaax]

@Todd Burch, I actually have experienced the opposite while keeping my TACC distance set at 7 (always). My MS would gently slow (every time) the moment it sees a vehicle down range under the 7 sec distance threshold, whether it be a stopped or slower vehicle in my lane or a vehicle that's beginning to cross into my lane. Is it possible that TACC behaves differently between AP equipped and non-AP MS's? In 7.1, I can replicate the TACC not responding to stopped traffic down range at an average of 1/5 tries. I was out driving this morning testing. Each event did display stopped vehicles on my dash as I would approach at 55mph then having to take over and brake late and hard with my body lunging forward in the seat. I do have video in my dash cam, but I think it's useless to show without having a visual of the dash display as well. I may borrow a friend's GoPro this weekend record the dash and attempt the test again.

My S70 is scheduled for service on Monday for air leaks coming from the front triangle windows. I will mention my post 7.1 TACC experiences with the service adviser and see if they have a newer rev available.

It's normal as in TACC has always acted that way.

Right about the time you intervened is about when the car would start tracking it and slowing down for it, which is how TACC has been acting since it first came out. Basically, when any car changes lanes and starts to cut in front of you, TACC usually takes a few seconds to start slowing down. It's always been like that. I'm not saying it *should* be like that, I'm just saying that's how it has been--it's not new to 7.1.

 

[Cosmacelf]

It does sound logical but the Mobileye CEO said in his talk last year (link is here on TMC somewhere) that the Eyeq3 is using only about 10% of its processing power in its current application. He made it sound like there is tons of computing headroom.

I don't think that's the way it works. Mobileye, for instance, doesn't currently use any radar sensors. That's all Tesla code. I think all Mobileye does is recognize lanes and cars, and gives that info to Tesla code which then actually controls the car. So the question is, where does the Tesla self driving code run? I don't think they are running it on the eyeQ3 chip itself. I suspect, the actually car control code is on the same processor as all the other car software runs on. So the turn signal blinker code runs on that same processor too, for instance.

 

[GoTslaGo]

Yes, this is a new feature of 7.1 to prevent the bad behavior seen on youtube. The problem is that the car does not really know where it is and which speed limit signs correlate to the road you are on. Lots of comments on this in other threads.

Thanks!

 

[green1]

Yes, this is a new feature of 7.1 to prevent the bad behavior seen on youtube. The problem is that the car does not really know where it is and which speed limit signs correlate to the road you are on. Lots of comments on this in other threads.

Just a reminder. Every time it gets this wrong, please email tesla. A few days ago they told me that they've received zero reports of the system getting this wrong, so they don't think it's a common occurrence. They also basically told me that nobody looks at the bug reports filed through the vehicle, so you need to email them [email protected]

 

[GoTslaGo]

Just a reminder. Every time it gets this wrong, please email tesla. A few days ago they told me that they've received zero reports of the system getting this wrong, so they don't think it's a common occurrence. They also basically told me that nobody looks at the bug reports filed through the vehicle, so you need to email them [email protected]

Thanks, will do that!

 

[Nismode]

Yep, mine is usually at 6/7. I have Collision Warning on 'Late,' but I think I will change it as well for now. 7.0 was much more relaxing for me. At least it didn't try to rear-end people. Just had to manage the curves and hold the wheel a little tighter.

I would say that's asking for trouble, I've driven with it on early and would rather an early warning and a false positive rather than finding out when I'm about to hit someone.

From what it sounds like in other threads, the majority of people having not having issues have their Collision Warning set to early, the TACC set to 4 and above, and are driving with a lot more vigilance with the beta software, versus those who might have it on late or put more blind faith and trust in the system than they should.

Might just be me personally, but at the end of the day, I'm the one responsible for getting me to my destination safely (as well as other passengers in the vehicle), and I'll be damned if I'm going to resign all of that control or power to a computer on "beta" software.

 

[davidc18]

The name 'autopilot' probably came from aviation. No certified IFR aircraft pilot would ever mistake an autopilot for autonomous flying. I think the word is quite precise and accurate, but may well be too technical for use among the general car driving population. It makes me sad to agree; I wish people would think about the actual meaning of words they use.

^^^^^^^^^ this

- - - Updated - - -

I always used to trust it and have confidence that it would eventually pick up the car and stop, but with my incident it definitely did not and was not going to. This is evidently clear since it likely triggered an AEB event, but I also slammed on the brakes and it definitely skidded with ABS activating. I know some will say it would have picked up the car and stopped (I certainly would if I saw this post), but I cannot highlight it enough that had I not intervened I would have hit the car.

I'm glad that you did not have an accident but please do not assume TACC will stop the car. You have to monitor the automation and decide when to intervene. You always have to intervene at some time. The car is in no way autonomous and must be monitored at all times.

I think that it is unfortunate that Tesla is allowing people to use autosteer and TACC without first training the delivery specialists on the systems and their proper use (at a minimum). I am shocked at some of the comments I've read, my favorite was a poster who is reading while using AP/TACC because he had read that the car was in control of the driving. REALLY!!!

Perhaps the public at large is just not ready for this level of automation assistance.

 

[Quantum`]

Ala ka Zam predicts: the CPU is too busy to respond in time. Thus means one of 3 things:
- It's in an unreasonable loop due to a bug; or
- A single driver or app needs optimizing; or
- It's just going as fast as it can and the load at busy times is past 100%, which means optimization AND feature freeze...
or new MCU. ¯\_(ツ)_⁄¯

 

[Todd Burch]

Ala ka Zam predicts: the CPU is too busy to respond in time. Thus means one of 3 things:
- It's in an unreasonable loop due to a bug; or
- A single driver or app needs optimizing; or
- It's just going as fast as it can and the load at busy times is past 100%, which means optimization AND feature freeze...
or new MCU. ¯\_(ツ)_⁄¯

No way. Autopilot uses dedicated processors.

- - - Updated - - -

Update: Still looking for this issue--still haven't found a software problem with TACC.

In fact, I was amazed by its awesomeness today. I was in the left lane of a 4-lane road (2 lanes each way) with nobody ahead of me but a car maybe 100 feet ahead and in the right line. I was going probably 5 mph faster than it, but I needed to turn right soon so inititated an automatic lane change.

The car started slowing immediately, before it moved over. In other words, it recognized that the car in the lane to the right of me was traveling slower, and immediately started slowing the car to make the lane change, versus switching to the adjacent lane, then slowing.

To my knowledge, no other adaptive cruise systems do this (presumably because nobody else does automated lane changes).

 

[JenniferQ]

it does lane changes very well. I'm not sure how the two systems work together, but I am starting to think the problems I'm having are more to do with TACC than AS. For example, today I only had TACC on, no AS, and the car starting slowing abruptly even though there was nothing in my lane. Only a truck to my right.

 

[Todd Burch]

it does lane changes very well. I'm not sure how the two systems work together, but I am starting to think the problems I'm having are more to do with TACC than AS. For example, today I only had TACC on, no AS, and the car starting slowing abruptly even though there was nothing in my lane. Only a truck to my right.

I've encountered that a few times. I saw it once on a bright, sunny day when a hard, straight shadow (from an overpass) crossed the road. I think the camera identified the straight shadow as a potential obstruction and began slowing out of caution.

The other time I encountered it was on a cloudy day--it wasn't a strong slowdown--more of a random drop in about 5 mph, then it increased again. Whole episode lasted less than 5 seconds. Haven't encountered it again on the same road since. But in that instance, there was a car to my right.

It could be that if it senses the adjacent car approaching the side of the S above some threshold, it begins slowing to try to avoid a collision. Just a guess.