What to do?!?!? 2013 Model S 60 Battery fail

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

My analysis was based on the assumption that a Tesla is simply a toy for which the buyer has plently of disposable income to spend. I would never recommend anyone to purchase a 100k vehicle unless they have the money to spend freely after all other neccessary financial obligations have already been met. You'd be absolutely insane (IMO) to buy a 100k car if you have student loans, credit card debt...or even a mortgage. No one needs a tesla...we simply want it. So assuming that we are retired and wealthy with plenty if disposable income with no liabilities I still want to get the tesla the cheapest possible way. My way beats your way every single time. And the amount I save assuming 2.5% inflation rate is about 7k... it's cool if you dont want that 7k...I do

In my opinion I figured out ostrich sack isn’t worth arguing with after he said that he wouldn’t even do a 0% loan. I think it’s a move the goalpost thing. Now it just comes down to the idea that it’s a bad financial decision to buy a brand new car. Now he’s just stating the obvious. I’ll be the first to say buying a brand new Tesla was the worst financial decision of my life. But all of my good financial decisions throughout life made it so it didn’t really matter. Almost any car you buy is going to depreciate, so just ride the bus and leave a butt load of money to your spoiled children.

 

[Tdub621]

Ostrich sack thinks that everyone on this forum is a financial idiot in terrible shape like the people who call Dave Ramsey for financial help. Dave gives the same advice to every single caller. Pay off debt, live off rice and beans, and make more money to be financially independent. Stating the obvious. What he doesn't understand is that uneducated people might use credit because they cant afford to pay for it otherwise. Financially savy people on the other hand use credit to help them save or make more money. You're right...the debate ended when he stated that he would decline a 0% loan.

 

[First EV]

Maybe the cost of depreciation and the loss of potential earnings if invested instead of buying the car is worth it to some people. I think there can be an appropriate balance. I have worked on cars for over 20 years as a side hobby. Typically a used car around $2500 will nickel and dime someone with repairs and tows over 5 years often more than $250 a month when averaged over 5 years. A $250 a month car payment over 5 years on a certified used Civic or Corolla with a certified used manufacturer warranty, as an example, is often a better choice despite the interest and depreciation. It will likely provide reliable transportation during the finance term and if there is a problem it will have a warranty. This makes it a controlled manageable monthly cost. IMO a reliable for at least 5 years $2500 car is not common and to state otherwise reflects on a lack of experience with cars at that price point.

 

[Ostrichsak]

My analysis was based on the assumption that a Tesla is simply a toy for which the buyer has plently of disposable income to spend. I would never recommend anyone to purchase a 100k vehicle unless they have the money to spend freely after all other neccessary financial obligations have already been met. You'd be absolutely insane (IMO) to buy a 100k car if you have student loans, credit card debt...or even a mortgage. No one needs a tesla...we simply want it. So assuming that we are retired and wealthy with plenty if disposable income with no liabilities I still want to get the tesla the cheapest possible way. My way beats your way every single time. And the amount I save assuming 2.5% inflation rate is about 7k... it's cool if you dont want that 7k...I do

You're talking to less than 1% of the people who actually buy a Tesla then if you're advice is for those with a net worth in the millions with no loans at all. My advice is for ANYONE reading my words to help them get to that point in life, the other 99%. Your post makes a lot of assumptions that are dangerous financially to the average consumer who is most likely reading thinking your advice is good.

Now, to this $7k you're speaking of....

You do realize that if you buy a brand new $100k car of any brand it will be worth about $50k in 4-5 years. Those are the numbers. I know because I've made a pretty good run at the cars that are about 4 years and I never even pay half of what they cost new. Couple that with your "good" interest rate on your loan that means you'll pay $10k in interest over the length of the loan and you're talking $60k lost in interest and vehicle depreciation over that 4-year window. That's even being optimistic and assumes no global recessions or other unforeseen events. Even if I give you 5-years to reach 50% value (in just about every case it's 4 years or less) that's still a net loss of $12k per year... every year... for five years. This is $60k right off of the top for a purchase most people reading this shouldn't even be making in the first place but, thanks to creative financing and greed by lending institutions, they've been able to finance their mistake. Not too many people working for a living can afford to just chop $12k off of their income but that's why banks & dealerships don't tell you the real numbers and want you to live in the world of what you can "afford" monthly because it's how they optimize the amount of your money they can take.

So, you can try to throw as many figures my was as you want but by my math $60k>$7k. Few people alive can comfortably chalk up that $12k loss annually to a loss in the entertainment category which is essentially all you're doing.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Ostrich sack thinks that everyone on this forum is a financial idiot in terrible shape like the people who call Dave Ramsey for financial help. Dave gives the same advice to every single caller. Pay off debt, live off rice and beans, and make more money to be financially independent. Stating the obvious. What he doesn't understand is that uneducated people might use credit because they cant afford to pay for it otherwise. Financially savy people on the other hand use credit to help them save or make more money. You're right...the debate ended when he stated that he would decline a 0% loan.

No, they use credit to buy items they shouldn't buy. That's the problem. It enables people the false idea that they can "afford" more than they can at the cost of their future in terms of interest.

Financially savvy people are largely people who do this creative crap to make it seem like they know something the rest don't.

In your scenario, you finance $100k for 0% interest over 66 months and then put that same cash in the market. Two years from now there's a global market correction coupled with a massive dip in the real estate market and you get laid off. Now you're cash reserves are tied up in the market which has plummeted in value and you've lost your only means to pay your monthly payments. You lose your car, your home and maybe file for BK.

In my scenario someone pays cash for a similar car that is 4 years old for half of the money. They then are free to put that other $50k on their mortgage, pay off other debt or just invest in the market. Then, in a year when the economy tanks & they become unemployed they lose nothing because they're liquid. There's no stressing out over losing cars or property and the only concern is coming up with registration for the vehicles and property tax when they both come due.

The scenario I painted happens all the time and it happened to a LOT of Americans about a dozen years ago. You can talk until you're blue in the face about how "smart" financing anything is and you'll never convince me.

Everyone here talking about taking cash advances or financing depreciating liabilities needs the economy to keep trending upwards forever without end for their scenario to remain even viable. This almost never happens and history has proven that corrections happen regularly and those with idiotic plans of world domination lose their @$$ in the process.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Maybe the cost of depreciation and the loss of potential earnings if invested instead of buying the car is worth it to some people. I think there can be an appropriate balance. I have worked on cars for over 20 years as a side hobby. Typically a used car around $2500 will nickel and dime someone with repairs and tows over 5 years often more than $250 a month when averaged over 5 years. A $250 a month car payment over 5 years on a certified used Civic or Corolla with a certified used manufacturer warranty, as an example, is often a better choice despite the interest and depreciation. It will likely provide reliable transportation during the finance term and if there is a problem it will have a warranty. This makes it a controlled manageable monthly cost. IMO a reliable for at least 5 years $2500 car is not common and to state otherwise reflects on a lack of experience with cars at that price point.

Complete BS. Your $250 car will have repairs in the $50-$80 range regularly. Repair bills on older and cheaper cars tend to be MUCH cheaper than newer and more expensive cars. Your scenario ends up being $15k over five years and you can fix a LOT of problems on a $250 car with a $15k budget. Your scenario also doesn't take depreciation into account which will probable be nothing at worst on the $250 and if you play your cards right you'll probably even make money at the end. That Civic or Corolla you speak up that was $15k will likely have lost thousands in depreciation. The only way your math works out is if you ignore one of the largest and undeniable costs to vehicle ownership: depreciation.

 

[KJD]

update from this am... Tesla SS has revised the estimate up an additional $250, because the efurbished S60 battery pack that was ordered is a v1.5 instead of a v1 and requires different mounting hardware.

What was the range after the pack was installed?

 

[Tdub621]

Ignorance is truly bliss. There is no "house of cards" as you put it. The cash is invested in risk free CD at 2%. If you dont understand how such a basic investment can guarantee a 2% return with zero risk then this conversation is clearly over as was the case when you would pass up on 0% loans. I'll build my wealth by factoring in inflation and taking into account the concept of time value of money. You can choose to ignore it and see how inflation erodes your cash over time.

 

[richrootes]

Off topic much?

 

[Tdub621]

Ostrichsak...say you have to 2 options to purchase a 100k model s. Would you...

1. Pay cash in full today
Or
2. Pay cash in full in 7 years 0% interest

Based on your comments you would pick option 1. I just want you to realize 100k in 7 years is worth about 87k today once you account for 2% inflation/discount rate. Please completey take out personal factors in your decision. You're simply trying to get the best deal on the car. I cant think of any reasons to pick option one if you're trying to get the best value.

 

[ucmndd]

Off topic much?

He said BETTER returns, not MORE returns. No matter what, less money weighs less and produces LESS returns.

 

[trm2]

He said BETTER returns, not MORE returns. No matter what, less money weighs less and produces LESS returns.

But one cent weighs 2.5 grams while a one dollar bill weighs 1 gram. So less money weighs more even though it will return less.

 

[First EV]

Complete BS. Your $250 car will have repairs in the $50-$80 range regularly. Repair bills on older and cheaper cars tend to be MUCH cheaper than newer and more expensive cars. Your scenario ends up being $15k over five years and you can fix a LOT of problems on a $250 car with a $15k budget. Your scenario also doesn't take depreciation into account which will probable be nothing at worst on the $250 and if you play your cards right you'll probably even make money at the end. That Civic or Corolla you speak up that was $15k will likely have lost thousands in depreciation. The only way your math works out is if you ignore one of the largest and undeniable costs to vehicle ownership: depreciation.

So you think a 4 to 5 year old Civic or Corolla with under 75k mikes will have regular repairs needed? Those are great reliable cars. Earlier the claim was made that a $2500 car would be reliable but now you're claiming a $15k car financed at $250 a month wouldn't be, lol wow. I had 3 cars like that before my Tesla and so have many of the people I know. Just because its contrary to what you believe or have experienced does not make it BS. I could have financed much more but I chose not to so I can put the money into my retirement and savings. A lot of people aren't even that fortunate and barely make it. Dude nobody is agreeing with you. So heres the deal people need reliable cars to get to work it doesn't matter if they are a depreciating asset or not. They have bills to pay like rent and electric that won't happen without reliable transportation. Talk about out of touch obviously you haven't dealt with an older unreliable car. Didn't you say you used to be in the banking industry?

 

[Ostrichsak]

So you think a 4 to 5 year old Civic or Corolla with under 75k mikes will have regular repairs needed? Those are great reliable cars. Earlier the claim was made that a $2500 car would be reliable but now you're claiming a $15k car financed at $250 a month wouldn't be, lol wow. I had 3 cars like that before my Tesla and so have many of the people I know. Just because its contrary to what you believe or have experienced does not make it BS. I could have financed much more but I chose not to so I can put the money into my retirement and savings. A lot of people aren't even that fortunate and barely make it. Dude nobody is agreeing with you. So heres the deal people need reliable cars to get to work it doesn't matter if they are a depreciating asset or not. They have bills to pay like rent and electric that won't happen without reliable transportation. Talk about out of touch obviously you haven't dealt with an older unreliable car. Didn't you say you used to be in the banking industry?

The fact that you bought a reliable 75k mile car in no way guarantees you won't have any repairs.

 

[First EV]

The fact that you bought a reliable 75k mile car in no way guarantees you won't have any repairs.

The warranty, since certified used. Again not $50 to $80 a month.

 

[dannycamps]

But one cent weighs 2.5 grams while a one dollar bill weighs 1 gram. So less money weighs more even though it will return less.

Yeah but 100 pennies weighs A LOT more than a one dollar bill so...wait what were we talking about again?

 

[TheFro]

This may be a little late OP but could you make this apply for your situation?

Tesla now covers degradation in Model S/X warranty - but leaves software loophole - Electrek

New warranty:

• Model S and Model X – 8 years or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period (with the exception of the original 60 kWh battery manufactured before 2015, which is covered for a period of 8 years or 150,000 miles , whichever comes first).

 

[ucmndd]

This may be a little late OP but could you make this apply for your situation?

Tesla now covers degradation in Model S/X warranty - but leaves software loophole - Electrek

New warranty:

• Model S and Model X – 8 years or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period (with the exception of the original 60 kWh battery manufactured before 2015, which is covered for a period of 8 years or 150,000 miles , whichever comes first).

I suspect that’s probably just a typo related to Tesla’s terrible QC and change management practices, and if pushed on the issue they’d (correctly) say that the warranty terms in effect when the car was sold take precedent.

 

[mongo]

@TheFro

I suspect that’s probably just a typo related to Tesla’s terrible QC and change management practices, and if pushed on the issue they’d (correctly) say that the warranty terms in effect when the car was sold take precedent.

That's exactly what they did.
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/tesla-new-vehicle-limited-warranty-en-us.pdf

 

[whitex]

I suspect that’s probably just a typo related to Tesla’s terrible QC and change management practices, and if pushed on the issue they’d (correctly) say that the warranty terms in effect when the car was sold take precedent.

Hopefully they will say the same for folks claiming unlimited mileage who purchased before Jan 29, 2020. I suspect they want to just "lose" the old text of the warranty, and anyone claiming unlimited mileage will be told the same as folks with yellow screens - warranty is what is shown on the website, we don't know what old version you're talking about, latest always applies. Why else would they be mentioning 60KWh batteries in warranty which only applies as of Jan 29,2020? Unless your theory is that they are bringing back the S60.

The software loophole though has them covered really well. The degradation must be 30% of the software max for your specific car - notice that different cars of same model and vintage get different limitations, depending on their hardware version (which changed as often as every 2 weeks) and state of degradation. All they have to do is have the software detect the degradation and keep lowering the max SoC and they never have to cover the battery.