EVNow
Well-Known Member
Well - last I heard they we're trying to redefine available to mean available for dealers to order.
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Breezy
Member
So they were, which was BS. Since then they have re-confirmed "availability" to mean on dealer lots.
JoRey
Current Volt Owner, Aspiring Model III Owner
I think of it a bit differently, see the majority of people in this forum would love to own a tesla today. However, since the majority of people don't currently own a Tesla. We can assume they cant or wont buy a car costing 50,000 dollars base 40 kwh Tesla Model S or used Tesla. Therefore, we can assume that a reasonable number of said people are going to be close to base and with few options. Since Tesla likes to simplify it's production line and if a large percentage of Model III's are ordered as base. We can assume that our wait will be trivial. I think we should have a poll, with a range of prices.
JoRey
Current Volt Owner, Aspiring Model III Owner
My biggest problem with my 2012 Volt, is that it is to small for my taste. Their is absolutely no space in back, i wish they had based it on the Cruze. Besides that the two biggest reasons as to why i'm not getting the Bolt. Is A no supercharging network and B the interior quality on my 40,000 dollars car is appalling. Hard plastics and cloth seats you see in the cheapest of cars (seriously though they scratch your skin). Finally, depreciation i bought my 40,000 car for 15000 dollars!
That happens a lot on the 2011/2012, they change size. You should have read the owner's manual for the 2011/2012, if you wash them, they do shrink. 2013 and up come pre-washed unless ordered with the 501 option code.
Luckily all the Cruzes were pre-washed as there was no 501 option, so with them, the size you buy it at is is the size it will stay.
While Chevy is keeping it quiet so far, it appears the Bolt is also pre-washed, so it will remain the same size as when you test drive it.
The fabric seats on the Volt are because as we all know by now, GM deliberately makes exploding cars. The Volt bursts into flames as you might have read, so Chevy put in SFI-20 Nomex seat covers to shield the occupants.
The reason why some brand new 2016 Volts are $25k OTD after taxes and rebates is because you need to know the secret handshake. If you don't know it, yes, they are $40k and up.
The Volt does have a supercharging kit for the engine in the GM Performance Parts catalog, but oddly enough, fixed displacement supercharging on a gas engine actually reduces range. Go figure.
However, I used to date Mary Barra, and we are still friends, so I asked her about supercharging the Bolt. She laughed in my face and hurt my feelings. Apparently she knows a LOT about cars and some engineers aren't always polite when you say stupid things to them.
Panoz
Member
I sure take a 180-degree different view of the Bolt. I feel it is, regardless of what GM execs say, nothing but a compliance vehicle. GM has exactly the same reasons to kill the Bolt as they had to kill the EV1. Think of GM products as computer printers - they'll give you the car in order to sell the ink you must buy later (and the ink is parts and service).
Their dealerships don't want an EV, so who's going to sell the Bolt? GM is deliberately not building a long-distance charging network like Tesla did, so they have non intention of speeding adoption of the new platform. GM doesn't want an EV, doesn't like EVs and their dealers will refuse to sell it.
How does GM spell Bolt? DEAD.
Their dealerships don't want an EV, so who's going to sell the Bolt? GM is deliberately not building a long-distance charging network like Tesla did, so they have non intention of speeding adoption of the new platform. GM doesn't want an EV, doesn't like EVs and their dealers will refuse to sell it.
How does GM spell Bolt? DEAD.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
With the given specs and price, I think the Bolt will easily sell 30k vehicles a year simply by cannibalizing Leaf owners. Unless they do something very dumb like the ELR marketing, I don't think it will be a challenge.
Unless you can show that GM makes more on parts (not service - GM doesn't make money on service), this is a bad analogy. Inkjet printers are sold at a loss to lock you in to their overpriced ink cartridges (where the real profit is made).
My Chevy pickup has 100k miles on it, and I've probably spent less than $1000 on parts. I have a hard time believing GM made more money on those parts than they did on the original sale of a $40k vehicle.
Legacy ICE manufacturers don't want to build EV's because they don't want to spend the money on R&D. If they were convinced the cars will sell, they'll make them. The problem is getting the dealers to sell them.
Uhhhh... Kind of late breaking news, but Chevy already sells a normal BEV compliance vehicle. Sub 100 mile range, cheap, quick, good handling.
I was sort of impressed that it was $18k OTD after taxes and rebates. Certainly quicker than most econoboxes and corners nice considering the dinky tires on it. Really needs some good tires and >200HP though.
Maybe they will update it. Who knows? It's already the best value in an BEV.
"Uhhhh... Kind of late breaking news, but Chevy already sells a normal BEV compliance vehicle. Sub 100 mile range, cheap, quick, good handling."
And I'd love to share my videos and ride in a Chevrolet Spark EV here - but MODS always hating on me here when I share my content.
Interesting thing is my ride was in a non compliance State = Illinois. At least one is owned and operated in Bloomington Normal area.
And I'd love to share my videos and ride in a Chevrolet Spark EV here - but MODS always hating on me here when I share my content.
Interesting thing is my ride was in a non compliance State = Illinois. At least one is owned and operated in Bloomington Normal area.
Not sure you can call them competitors in design. The Bolt will be a much cheaper built car. The price being touted includes a dealer's 'add on cost'. The 3 will not need to include a dealer in the price so given near equal final cost, the 3 has more of the cost going to production. Only way GM can compete is by losing money on each sale.
Tesla has similar sales costs (they still have sales centers and salesmen). I highly doubt that is going to be much of a cost differential at all.
After being in the new Volt today, I wouldn't be sure that the Bolt will be cheaply made. The new Volt feels like a luxury car, I was seriously impressed.
flankspeed8
Member
While I would not call the Volt a luxury car, I have never heard anyone say it didn't ride nice. You are the first and I have even convinced 3 friends to buy one.
WATTS-UP
Member
I don’t think that TESLA is going to come out with an electric for less than $50,000.00 any time soon. They don’t have the ability to produce 300,000 units per year. Given the number of Leaf owners that would switch to Tesla they would need table to produce that many.
They don't need to produce a given quantity, or even meet demand. They can do just like they are doing with the Model X. You put a deposit to get in line to place an order, and then the release batches of those reservations to configure and actually order as they have capacity. And don't forget that there is still more demand for the Model S than they can fulfill. Every car they make is a custom order for someone.
They have already said that the Model 3 will start at $35,000 and start being delivered at the end of next year. (Maybe you don't count that as "any time soon."
Liz G
P03056
I'm not concerned about Bolt negatively impacting the Model 3. Contrary to that, I think it may actually increase Model 3 reservations. By not investing in a fast charging network, Chevy has simply created a longer range commuter car. Without a fast charging option, outside of everything else, they are just not comparable. Especially considering the amount of range anxiety out there, I suspect most people will pick the Model 3 with SuperCharging over the Bolt with none. That is of course, if they are remain similarly priced.
And while Chevy does have greater name recognition than Tesla, based on what I've seen at successive Auto Shows in St. Louis over the past 4 years, Tesla awareness is increasing in leaps and bounds, as is consumer interest in owning one.
And while Chevy does have greater name recognition than Tesla, based on what I've seen at successive Auto Shows in St. Louis over the past 4 years, Tesla awareness is increasing in leaps and bounds, as is consumer interest in owning one.
WATTS-UP
Member
What good is having $35,000.00 car that you can’t product. Let assume that the mark-up on all Tesla’s S, X, or 3 is the same. You are charged with setting production rates. The mark-up on each car being 30% and you have limited production. Your going to build 100,000 3’s at the cost how many “S” and “X” cars. How long do you think you would remain in business?
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