Not much. A comparable car by a company that provides proper service, and does not downgrade the car over the air, or make changes without my permission, and provides full disclosure of what the OTA change would be. I don't find the charging times conducive to long distance travel, so I don't even care about the SuC network. Given the underhanded, dishonest way that Tesla has chosen to deal with its customers, especially the early adopters, leaves me with 0 loyalty to Tesla. So for me it won't take much.
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What would make you buy a non Tesla electric vehicle?
- Thread starter InsanePath
- Start date
Dadiggaman
Member
Tesla's mission, its reason for existence, has not been matched by another company. Every other car company sells EVs in order to sell more gas cars, or because Tesla is eating their lunch.
I won't buy a car from a company other than Tesla unless that company have a technology that is more sustainable than Tesla's. Also the new company has to be in business because they believe that personal transportation should be sustainable.
I won't buy a car from a company other than Tesla unless that company have a technology that is more sustainable than Tesla's. Also the new company has to be in business because they believe that personal transportation should be sustainable.
Lots of Tesla fans here responding I see. It’s cute! I am a Tesla owner and a previously HUGE Tesla fan. I unfortunately have decided to move away from Tesla. And the biggest reason is their declining customer service. As a Michigan based Tesla owner it’s been particularly bad owning a Tesla now in how the company has gone back on its word on providing customer service. We had plans on upgrading our home fleet with a model X over and above the model S that we own but I’m not touching a Tesla ever again.
Also as over the years the fandom has faded and reason has taken over and now that the warranty has expired I have realized how bad the quality control on the car has been. From horrible paint job to breaking door handles to screen issues to vibration issues the list has been long. Add to all this when the company expects you to drive your S three hours to the nearest out of state service station (not kidding, they promised valet service for non model 3 customers and now they say “you’re on your own”) you start to see the writing on The wall in that the happy days of owning a Tesla and being a rabid fan are done.
yup I am done with Tesla and will never buy one ever again for the above stated reasons.
I absolutely second this. And sadly enough this is the biggest reason we’re moving away from owning a Tesla again.
Jjmboni
Member
Came here to post the very same car. I have a 2013 Nissan Leaf and in some areas it's LOADS better than my Tesla MX. I'd like to add a few:
- Heater is MUCH more powerful than the Tesla. Takes less than 1/2 mile to get from 28F to 72F in my Leaf. It takes the MX at least two miles if not more.
- Nissan gives you more explicit control over the car vs Tesla. For example, in my Leaf, I can specify a schedule where it automatically turns on the heater and pre-heats. Great in those cold winter mornings when I go out to my car to go to work! The Tesla has to "learn" when you get in the car and develop those habits itself; you can't control it. I've never actually gotten in my MX in the morning and have it be warm yet.
- Nissan is more user friendly in some ways. For example: In the Tesla, I click the "speak" button and say "Call Honey" (my wife). Tesla displays the number on the dash but nothing else. If you do nothing, it eventually goes away. Took me a couple of days to realize I actually had to press the steering wheel button to "accept" that number and actually dial. Nissan Leaf: Click the "speak" button and say "Call Honey". Nissan says "Please select the number you wish to dial' and displays her numbers (home/work). I say "One". Nissan says "One (Honey). Please say 'Dial'." I say "Dial" and Nissan calls the number. Much more user friendly.
- Mechanical Brake. This is maybe a personal thing but I really like that mechanical brake. Think about it this way: In an ICE vehicle there are four ways to stop the vehicle: Brake, Shift gears/park, Turn off car, Mechanical/Emergency brake. In the Nissan Leaf, there are two ways to stop the vehicle: Brake, Mechanical/Emergency brake. In the Tesla, there's two ways, but one isn't very well advertised: Brake, hold the Park button on the shift stalk.
mkspeedr
Member
So I've driven Tesla's and really like them, clearly the tech is better, the equivalent of have a land line or a cell phone imo. But at the same time Tesla a) doesn't really have "cheap" car yet although the 3 is really getting approachable and b) I really like having something with high ground clearance for adventuring.
As far as the panel gaps go, that's old news. Tesla patented a device to help the gaps align properly, and I haven't heard of any complaints in months. My 3 year old S had slight gap issues, but I never noticed them or even care. Some OCD friend with a tesla was staring at my car.
Just give me proper heat on my feet and I'd be happy.
True. Fortunately I prefer not to call and deal with that whole mess. The service scheduling through the app is great for my needs. Takes less time than for me to actually find and dial the phone number. 3 years of ownership and 43k miles.
I would seriously consider a car that was more comfortable, while still having reasonable range and a viable charging network for long trips.
My height and my aging spine both make it less than ideal to get into and out of my Model S. I have driven the Model X and do like its seating position, but did not find the seats comfortable. I have no issues with the Tesla build quality, which is perfectly adequate on my car, and I have never had any serious issues with Tesla service.
The first car I have read about that tempts me is the Mercedes Benz EQC. The European reviews (including Bjorn Nyland and "Fully Charged") have been very positive. Bjorn could not stop saying how much he loved the car during his one-week test. He said it was extremely quiet, very comfortable, had good outward visibility, what he described as amazing headlamps, and in Europe at least, the charging was easy to use. Its range is modest but probably adequate for us, and it does not charge as fast as some other cars (like the Audi e-Tron), but it is pretty efficient. Coincidentally, my daughter just leased a Mercedes GLC300, which is the petrol car on which the EQC is apparently based. She previously had an E-class Mercedes (as I did before Tesla came along), and she cannot stop raving abut how quiet and comfortable it is. Despite the criticisms I have read of the Mercedes infotainment system, my daughter has found it easy to learn and use.
I had a few minutes in an Audi eTron. It was OK but a big large for my taste and I know it is not very efficient. It was pretty comfortable, and Bjorn showed that it is very good for long distance driving in Europe, because it charges very fast if the charging network supports the higher charge rates the Audi can accept. I might take another look at some point.
I owned Mercedes for more than 40 years, so I know the marque and have some residual loyalty to it. But I am realistic about the advantages and disadvantages of the dealer network, and have had both stellar and unsatisfactory experiences with their service.
So I guess what I am saying is that I would consider an EV from a manufacturer I can trust, with decent range, if it is comfortable and has a good long-distance charging network. The last point is probably the biggest unknown for me. i do not have a good feel for how rapidly the Volkswagen charging network is rolling out, which seems like the best hope for near-term distance driving for non-Tesla EVs.
My height and my aging spine both make it less than ideal to get into and out of my Model S. I have driven the Model X and do like its seating position, but did not find the seats comfortable. I have no issues with the Tesla build quality, which is perfectly adequate on my car, and I have never had any serious issues with Tesla service.
The first car I have read about that tempts me is the Mercedes Benz EQC. The European reviews (including Bjorn Nyland and "Fully Charged") have been very positive. Bjorn could not stop saying how much he loved the car during his one-week test. He said it was extremely quiet, very comfortable, had good outward visibility, what he described as amazing headlamps, and in Europe at least, the charging was easy to use. Its range is modest but probably adequate for us, and it does not charge as fast as some other cars (like the Audi e-Tron), but it is pretty efficient. Coincidentally, my daughter just leased a Mercedes GLC300, which is the petrol car on which the EQC is apparently based. She previously had an E-class Mercedes (as I did before Tesla came along), and she cannot stop raving abut how quiet and comfortable it is. Despite the criticisms I have read of the Mercedes infotainment system, my daughter has found it easy to learn and use.
I had a few minutes in an Audi eTron. It was OK but a big large for my taste and I know it is not very efficient. It was pretty comfortable, and Bjorn showed that it is very good for long distance driving in Europe, because it charges very fast if the charging network supports the higher charge rates the Audi can accept. I might take another look at some point.
I owned Mercedes for more than 40 years, so I know the marque and have some residual loyalty to it. But I am realistic about the advantages and disadvantages of the dealer network, and have had both stellar and unsatisfactory experiences with their service.
So I guess what I am saying is that I would consider an EV from a manufacturer I can trust, with decent range, if it is comfortable and has a good long-distance charging network. The last point is probably the biggest unknown for me. i do not have a good feel for how rapidly the Volkswagen charging network is rolling out, which seems like the best hope for near-term distance driving for non-Tesla EVs.
Jerseygirl18:
Au contraire, people like me do go back.
I'd driven S class Mercedes for 20 years before ordering a 2015 P90D. At first I was gaga over it. But the things I really liked were the massive torque from the electric motors, the lane assist and the smart cruise control. I was in heaven. Then I realize that Tesla had nothing to do with them. Huge torque from a dead stop is an inherent characteristic of electric motors made for the last 150 years. Lane assist and smart cruise control were developed by an Israeli company who has licensed it to Tesla and just about every other car company around the world, so Tesla had nothing to do with any of the things that I really loved.
But, Tesla had 100% responsibility for everything that was wrong with the car. My main battery failed when the car was a few months old and had to be remanufactured -- they refused to simply give me a new battery, stating that they wanted every car to retain all its original components. BS. It was 7 months before it showed up from CA, and when they put it in the car and ran diagnostics, it was found to be defective -- they hadn't run the diagnostics before crating it up and sending it cross country. After a lot of screaming by the Service Manager at the knuckleheads in Fremont, a new battery arrived.
A sensor in the rear bumper kept falling out. Drivers door handle failed. Wiring harness for the airbag system failed, and when the part came in, it had the correct part number, but it was the wrong harness. Tesla had developed a new wiring harness, but gave it the already existing part number versus a new one. It took them weeks to find the correct harness. There's not a single car company in the world except Tesla who'd do such a boneheaded thing.
So what did I do? I was so put off by the car that I wrote a $9,000 check to get out of my lease early, and handed them the keys. And I went back to Mercedes. They know how to treat their customers, and **correct** parts availability is a non-issue.
I very much want to have an EV again as I loved the smooth, seamless driving experience, and will do so probably within the next 18 months when MB, BMW, Audi, VW, Porsche, Volvo and other companies bring out competing models to Tesla S,X,Y and 3. They know how to run a car company and take care of their customers.
Just one guy's not so great experience, YMMV.
Supercharging was never an issue for me, as 99% of my driving was within 200 miles of my home round trip, and I'd just plug it into my 240V line when I got home.
If I needed to go on a long distance trip and there was no superchargers available to me (common problem in states with sparse populations) I'd simply rent a car for a week.
I would feel it necessary to go back to an ICE if I moved to a residence where installing a charger was not possible. I was considering a move to a new construction, high dollar, luxury resort style condo in downtown Sarasota but it has a remote parking garage. Even is there is a charger located somewhere on premise, I would not be enthusiastic about having to baby sit the recharge process every time.
Either iPace or eTron or Rivian or even a leaf. But certainly not a second Tesla. They dump on their customers through shamelessly horrid customer service and I’m done with this company. Hurts especially badly since I was one of the early adapters out of Michigan.
I’ve had similar experiences with Tesla and their offensive lack of customer service or willingness to stand behind their vehicle despite the numerous quality issues and therefore I too have decided to just ride it out with my current model S and get another EV as my second one. Yeah it sucks that there will be no fast charging supercharging network with other EVs but at least I won’t be burning My brain cells with a company that has stopped caring about keeping its long time customers happen
Price and a better support system. An established car manufacturer is going to have more repair options and facilities. I bought Tesla because it was the only EV that was fun to drive. Who wants to putt putt around in a Leaf when you can fly in a Tesla? If anyone comes up with something fun to drive with long range and better support, I will consider it. As a second car, keeping my Tesla of course.
I agree pretty much 100% with @mvotb (Post #41).
2015 P90DL here. When I got it, it was great. No nags on autopilot -- none! Just set it and go. Then with later firmwares they started nagging, about once per minute (yeah I timed it). Later 2018 builds ("nag gate") increased that to once every 12-15 seconds in some cases, or every 30 seconds if the car is feeling generous. What used to be a fun road trip, especially out here in the sticks, is now just me babysitting the car like it's some sort of tamagotchi, jiggling the wheel every 15 seconds so it doesn't punish me just because it can't detect my hands. Elon promised the car would drive itself, and it mostly did, back in 2015. Everything since then has been a downgrade in the autopilot sense.
How about a car where the cruise control works, even when the forward-facing sensors are confused? If you're going to disable "advanced autopilot functionality", that shouldn't mean I cannot use dumb cruise control! Every car I've owned since the 1980's has had dumb cruise control. But not this one -- it's so smart it downgrades itself to complete manual control if you park it with the AP camera facing the sun for too long. Yeesh.
Chargegate. Yep, got me. I can't SC faster than 109kW, when I used to hit 116-121kW. Downgraded.
Batterygate. Not sure if this one's got me yet or not. I know my practical range is ~180miles on level-ish roads, even though the Tesla Configurator showed something much higher -- 245 or something, for my car when it was built. But over the past 38k miles, the real world range on interstates has proven itself to be "180 miles safely, anything beyond that is pushing your luck".
Let me set my AP cruise control faster than 5mph over the posted speed. Out here in the sticks, people drive 65-70 in a 55 (state 2-lane hwy) all the time. My frickin Tesla is too smart for that and apparently thinks it's supposed to nanny me, so to keep with the traffic flow, I have to disable AP. At least I used to be able to hold the gas down with AP on, and it'd punish me by requiring the wheel be jiggled right away, but then I'd have a full minute before it did that again. Now with the OTA downgrades, I'm back to every 15 seconds, which is annoying enough that I'll just disable AP instead.
The list goes on and on, but basically:
- Don't reduce and remove functionality over time
- Let me service my own vehicle instead of fighting tooth and nail to make it difficult
If an EV manufacturer were to come out with a vehicle equivalent to the 2015 P90D (range, AP1, drivetrain), make it accessible to backyard mechanics at a level similar to contemporary ICE vehicles, and I knew they could never downgrade me from that functionality or accessibility, I'd switch to that manufacturer in a heartbeat. For that matter, if I had a time machine, I'd go back to 2015-2016 me, and tell that guy to pull the SIM card out of the stupid thing before the v8 firmware came out. That seemed to be peak functionality, everything since then has been downhill and adding stupid games instead of fixing bugs. Right now, Tesla's OTA is actively making the cars worth less, the longer one owns them.
Ah, sorry. Hit a nerve and now I've vented my spleen.
2015 P90DL here. When I got it, it was great. No nags on autopilot -- none! Just set it and go. Then with later firmwares they started nagging, about once per minute (yeah I timed it). Later 2018 builds ("nag gate") increased that to once every 12-15 seconds in some cases, or every 30 seconds if the car is feeling generous. What used to be a fun road trip, especially out here in the sticks, is now just me babysitting the car like it's some sort of tamagotchi, jiggling the wheel every 15 seconds so it doesn't punish me just because it can't detect my hands. Elon promised the car would drive itself, and it mostly did, back in 2015. Everything since then has been a downgrade in the autopilot sense.
How about a car where the cruise control works, even when the forward-facing sensors are confused? If you're going to disable "advanced autopilot functionality", that shouldn't mean I cannot use dumb cruise control! Every car I've owned since the 1980's has had dumb cruise control. But not this one -- it's so smart it downgrades itself to complete manual control if you park it with the AP camera facing the sun for too long. Yeesh.
Chargegate. Yep, got me. I can't SC faster than 109kW, when I used to hit 116-121kW. Downgraded.
Batterygate. Not sure if this one's got me yet or not. I know my practical range is ~180miles on level-ish roads, even though the Tesla Configurator showed something much higher -- 245 or something, for my car when it was built. But over the past 38k miles, the real world range on interstates has proven itself to be "180 miles safely, anything beyond that is pushing your luck".
Let me set my AP cruise control faster than 5mph over the posted speed. Out here in the sticks, people drive 65-70 in a 55 (state 2-lane hwy) all the time. My frickin Tesla is too smart for that and apparently thinks it's supposed to nanny me, so to keep with the traffic flow, I have to disable AP. At least I used to be able to hold the gas down with AP on, and it'd punish me by requiring the wheel be jiggled right away, but then I'd have a full minute before it did that again. Now with the OTA downgrades, I'm back to every 15 seconds, which is annoying enough that I'll just disable AP instead.
The list goes on and on, but basically:
- Don't reduce and remove functionality over time
- Let me service my own vehicle instead of fighting tooth and nail to make it difficult
If an EV manufacturer were to come out with a vehicle equivalent to the 2015 P90D (range, AP1, drivetrain), make it accessible to backyard mechanics at a level similar to contemporary ICE vehicles, and I knew they could never downgrade me from that functionality or accessibility, I'd switch to that manufacturer in a heartbeat. For that matter, if I had a time machine, I'd go back to 2015-2016 me, and tell that guy to pull the SIM card out of the stupid thing before the v8 firmware came out. That seemed to be peak functionality, everything since then has been downhill and adding stupid games instead of fixing bugs. Right now, Tesla's OTA is actively making the cars worth less, the longer one owns them.
Ah, sorry. Hit a nerve and now I've vented my spleen.
