LiamPope
Member
Was it 15 or 16 he said FSD was a solved problem? That means finished, done, achieved, not that they think they can figure it out in 5-10 years time. An outright lie. Around the same time they released that fake video.
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When will privately owned Tesla Robotaxis be operating on HW3 or lower?
- Thread starter hooty
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Was it 15 or 16 he said FSD was a solved problem? That means finished, done, achieved, not that they think they can figure it out in 5-10 years time. An outright lie. Around the same time they released that fake video.
SalisburySam
Active Member
You’re right of course, they cannot. But they also cannot take something away, which they have done repeatedly. I know, I know, Tesla can manually update my car at any time they want for alleged safety reasons, but they’ve opted not to do so to date.
Since delivery in July 2018, I’ve received and applied 108 OTA updates, garnering significant and welcome improvements except for the horrific UI change some of which they’ve walked back.
Several things, actually. In no particular order:
- Hundreds of threads/posts delineating issues with TV that I don’t experience.
- The fact that several desirable functions that perform well on my car don’t on TV. These include but are not limited to AutoPark, Smart Summon, and Stupid Summon. Yes, those actually work for me.
- I don’t have to engage AutoWipers, nor AutoHighBeams, to use AutoPilot functions.
- I can still use the “1” following distance, absolutely essential to me in bumper-to-bumper stop-and-go rush hour traffic on major highways. The TV minimum of “2” generates a gap that is too easily slipped into by neighboring vehicles to both my annoyance and especially that of those behind me.
- I still have a maximum TACC speed of 90mph. Yeah, I don’t use that much, or ever, but it is an indicator to me that TV parity hasn’t arrived.
- Eliminating the radar was supposed to, among other things, also eliminate phantom braking which I experience and detest vehemently. Threads on forums indicate that hasn’t happened on TV though and PB seems to be as is has always been: something that affects some of us but nowhere near all, and something that improves then gets worse then better then worse over time with each software update. Neither radar nor TV seems directly responsible or able to overcome PB for those of us who have it.
As soon as those limitations are overcome, and there is no longer a threat to my other TV-deprecated functions like AutoPark, I’ll install whatever update is then available. Until then, I evaluate the “new, improved” features in each new update and so far haven’t seen anything I have to have or want sufficiently to give up what I have…I’m quite happy with my car as it is. Obviously YMMV.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
2030 ... Because never is a long time. If and when Tesla cracks FSD ... they will figure out a way to make it works for HW3 or upgrade to HW5 or whatever version they are on.
Phantom breaking is insanely rare on FSD Beta which is 100% vision. So rare that in the last 10k miles, I've seen it twice. I have seen where a large turn is coming and a car appears to come straight at you, the car will brake, but that's an obvious braking event, not phantom.
The AutoPark, Summon, etc. have nothing to do with radar. Those are USS limitations as the car used USS for those.
No, I do not think that is what it means in context. Musk is a nerd and a futurist, those types don’t worry about dotting I’s and crossing T’s, those are implementation problems for engineers.
When he said it was a solved problem he was probably meaning that the route to the solution is mapped out, the pieces understood, not that it existed. I think that probably stands up until such time as FSD stops making progress towards completion, which at the moment it is.
Another example of why most companies don’t use their futurist tech visionaries as PR people.
I’m not trying to tell you you’re wrong, so don’t read it that way, but please bear in mind that this forum is inhabited by the wingiest wingers there are. If I took every problem that this forum said exists in the vehicle I have on my driveway right now at face value I’d never get in it.
Phantom braking happens nonstop on AP on highways in Nevada on sunny days which is 100% vision.
bradtem
Robocar consultant
Well, of course they need future hardware. As the poll suggests, that's not the interesting question, the question is, what will a retrofit take, and how will they meet their obligation to those they sold FSD to - particularly in the early days when they said it would actually self drive and do robotaxi, which they do not explicitly promise any more.
I do think it can be done, in time, with well under $15K of hardware. It would be easier if the car were designed to make retrofit easier. But there is a mounting point for a radar, and cameras can be improved. Not many places to put the LIDARs or extra cameras.
While the HW4 board won't fit in our cars, it doesn't mean a different board could not be made to do that, and different cameras. They have almost 500,000 HW3 cars they need to deliver FSD on, so this would be done at scale.
Otherwise it's a refund -- but that won't satisfy a lot of folks.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
No - not many pre3/19 cars with L4 like wording.
Many of those have already been traded in too.
Here is my estimate from a while ago.
------------------
Tesla hasn't advertised "fsd capable hardware" for quite a while. They just put this now ...
View attachment 898444
As to number of cars with FSD - Tesla says they released FSDb to some 285k cars. Troy estimate is some 350k world-wide. I think less than 50k of that is probably before 3/19 - which promised end-to-end handsfree driving. But they paid less than $5k for that ... so, $250M. From Q1 '19 10Q. This is the one I think Tesla should make an offer for the buyers to refund part of their FSD and the liability off their books.
Deferred revenue activity related to the access to our Supercharger network, internet connectivity, Autopilot, full self-driving and over-the-air
software updates on automotive sales with and without resale value guarantee amounted to $1.04 billion and $882.8 million as of March 31, 2019 and
December 31, 2018, respectively.
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SalisburySam
Active Member
Glad for you and the experiences you’re having. I think most owners enjoy the same. But PB doesn’t happen to all, and maybe to not more than a small percentage given Tesla’s low priority of fixes for those of us for whom it DOES happen. The forums, including this one, report PB had NOT gone away on FSDb. Those, perhaps like you fortunately, who didn’t have PB before likely still don’t.
Correct and I didn’t say it did. I was trying to respond with my experiences to @Mullermn’s very fair question about the old (with radar) vs new (TV) software. My 2018 M3LRRWD has and uses the USS suite but for awhile newer TV software updates disabled the Park/Summon features. They’ve now come back, to some extent, in the more recent updates but again a non-zero amount of forum members are reporting TV versions of these features are of less-than-stellar reliability. Those features, which I like and use, work consistently and very reliably on my car with its 10-month old non-TV software. Why would I give that up? When the forums begin to say things like “gosh, this TV is really working well…I‘ve got ALL the features and reliability that I had before TV!” then I’ll willingly return to my update cycle of trying to be first on the block. I like things that work well, far more than I like new/bright/shiny. I don’t like losing things altogether or having them replaced with partial solutions.
Elon Musk is a congenital liar, a snake oil salesman, a carnival barker! That "promise" made him how much richer? When someone offers snake oil, run, don't walk.
The disappointing thing is the lack of action by authorities - must be TSLA invested
Because people aren't interested in legal action. That seems pretty obvious and logical.
I got tired of overzealous 11.4.3 turn signals and lane changes on a freeway drive and decided to try TACC and wouldn't you know it, in short order we had a phantom brake.
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