where will we be in 3 years time?

[yessuz]

I think the point for me is if another car, say Polestar has about the same range as a tesla, was cheaper and I could use the Tesla network, then I would be all over it. But if its not cheaper and still uses the public network, then its a definite no. For me the network and super ease of using the M3 is what trumps anything. we looked at all sorts of cars before buying the M3. Hybrids were all more expensive pretty much, and nearly all new electric cars that could do the same range and be as efficient.

Tesla atm is miles in front of the competition. The rest either need to reduce prices to compensate for using the other network or have better range.

This.
I am yet to be Tesla owner - waiting for my delivery in March.
I was looking for various alternatives, and that's what I found:
1) Tesla SC network is just gazillion miles better in UK than anything else. This was the main factor that I can use same charging network as others + tesla SC network.
2) Price - to be fair, Kia EV6 and Polestar 2 were my options. Both of them came more or less same cost (if not higher) than M3LR. all the things you get in tesla by default are options for others. Like Lane assist is an option for Polestar in the Pilot Pack, which is 3k. LR is 6k. So what you get is: 40k for base price + 9k for "auto pilot" and Long Range (which is less than tesla's), worse efficiency and if you want a heatpump - that's another Plus pack for 4k...) so that car is already more expensive than M3LR... and on top of that no access to the SC...

 

[yessuz]

having said that, I do not think that there's going to be too much of the change in 3 years. 3 years is not a very long time, really.
Main change will be, I would presume, that SC network will be wider and probably other cars will have access to it but at the much higher cost than Tesla own cars.

Legacy manufacturers launched bunch of cars now and it will be ~5 year cycle to refresh change and they will not release much more other vehicles due to chip shortage, which will last another year or two.

all what we will see is just much more Teslas and other already released EVs on the road. but the situation will be more or less the same.

 

[PITA]

I think Jeff Bozo's will build a Blue Organ Spacecraft and fire it into the Sun, claiming it for himself and start a Worldwide costing plan for it's energy use...

... if he can get it up that far...

 

[Peter 224]

The grid will cope just fine - most of it was built to handle the demands of heavy industries prevalent years ago, now long gone.

Old residential substations and distribution cables, not so much.

Exactly, the 11KV and above sectors of the grid has plenty of capacity, both generating and distribution. It is the rural and urban low (240v) parts that are the problem. Much of it was built in the 60s and 70s when the idea that homes might need more than a 60A supply was beyond the planners remit.

Who pays for the upgrades?

 

[Fox86]

I think the point for me is if another car, say Polestar has about the same range as a tesla, was cheaper and I could use the Tesla network, then I would be all over it. But if its not cheaper and still uses the public network, then its a definite no. For me the network and super ease of using the M3 is what trumps anything. we looked at all sorts of cars before buying the M3. Hybrids were all more expensive pretty much, and nearly all new electric cars that could do the same range and be as efficient.

Tesla atm is miles in front of the competition. The rest either need to reduce prices to compensate for using the other network or have better range.

Couldn’t agree more, the Polestar 2 was the car that got me interested in EVs and was my initial go to when I first started looking for a new car.

Styling and interior are lovely, the hatch back was a big plus for me with a dog too. Then you get to the price and option packs to even make it comparable to a Tesla, coupled with the poorer efficiency and it just didn’t add up for me.

 

[PITA]

Exactly, the 11KV and above sectors of the grid has plenty of capacity, both generating and distribution. It is the rural and urban low (240v) parts that are the problem. Much of it was built in the 60s and 70s when the idea that homes might need more than a 60A supply was beyond the planners remit.

Who pays for the upgrades?

Our Distribution Network Operator is Western Power.

When I applied to have a 7kW EV Charger fitted at home, the application was denied.

It was denied because our house was on a looped supply (shared with our neighbour), so it had to be removed first.

As part of that process, I negotiated for them to 'future-proof' the upgrade and install 3 Phase cabling. To my surprise they agreed, and to do it free of charge.

I asked, and they estimated the work would cost them about £7,500

Took 8 days from start to finish, with at least 10 people involved, and the whole street dug up.

I saw the planning documents, and nearly every house on our Estate (c. 100 houses) were also on looped supply's.

Who's going to pay for it all, if this has to be rolled out Countrywide... it'll be £billions

 

[Peter 224]

Our Distribution Network Operator is Western Power.

When I applied to have a 7kW EV Charger fitted at home, the application was denied.

It was denied because our house was on a looped supply (shared with our neighbour), so it had to be removed first.

As part of that process, I negotiated for them to 'future-proof' the upgrade and install 3 Phase cabling. To my surprise they agreed, and to do it free of charge.

I asked, and they estimated the work would cost them about £7,500

Took 8 days from start to finish, with at least 10 people involved, and the whole street dug up.

I saw the planning documents, and nearly every house on our Estate (c. 100 houses) were also on looped supply's.

Who's going to pay for it all, if this has to be rolled out Countrywide... it'll be £billions

And therein lies the problem.

Before we can go 100% electric the vast majority of looped supply connections will have to be upgraded to 3 phase. £7,500 is cheap... Our supply is on poles and the distance to the transformer is 175m. Even so the Scottish and Southern engineer estimated about twice that plus a new transformer at £30k.

 

[yessuz]

Our Distribution Network Operator is Western Power.

When I applied to have a 7kW EV Charger fitted at home, the application was denied.

It was denied because our house was on a looped supply (shared with our neighbour), so it had to be removed first.

As part of that process, I negotiated for them to 'future-proof' the upgrade and install 3 Phase cabling. To my surprise they agreed, and to do it free of charge.

I asked, and they estimated the work would cost them about £7,500

Took 8 days from start to finish, with at least 10 people involved, and the whole street dug up.

I saw the planning documents, and nearly every house on our Estate (c. 100 houses) were also on looped supply's.

Who's going to pay for it all, if this has to be rolled out Countrywide... it'll be £billions

I wonder why you applied to network operator, when 7kW charger is essentially 3 kettles on at the same time. and it comes from the house supply anyway. sole reason beeing looped?

when I installed my EV charger (2 years ago), I contacted pod-point, they managed all the EV grants and I had to pay the difference. I am not aware that they had to contact grid Operator for that. And this was semi, built in 1980s so maybe at this point my connection was already fine.

very interesting

 

[UkNorthampton]

Our Distribution Network Operator is Western Power.

When I applied to have a 7kW EV Charger fitted at home, the application was denied.

It was denied because our house was on a looped supply (shared with our neighbour), so it had to be removed first.

As part of that process, I negotiated for them to 'future-proof' the upgrade and install 3 Phase cabling. To my surprise they agreed, and to do it free of charge.

I asked, and they estimated the work would cost them about £7,500

Took 8 days from start to finish, with at least 10 people involved, and the whole street dug up.

I saw the planning documents, and nearly every house on our Estate (c. 100 houses) were also on looped supply's.

Who's going to pay for it all, if this has to be rolled out Countrywide... it'll be £billions

Home, local area storage will help. Trickle charge the storage smoothes out demand as well, add solar & off-peak smoothing as well. This applies to local storage/generation as well. Trickle charge local megapacks overnight from grid or when local solar from factories, shops & schools is above needs in summer. Creates a better market for local solar too, encouraging over-provision which goes into storage, helps resiliency for storms etc.

Is 7kw (30 amp) enough for a house? I think it will be for most people unless they have multiple EVs and everyone does high mileages regularly. I think that would be an unusual pattern. We have a low max amperage for our house, EV charger switches off when oven, shower, everything on - it only works during normal & not mad peak house load times (which are rare).

 

[pgkevet]

I wonder why you applied to network operator, when 7kW charger is essentially 3 kettles on at the same time. and it comes from the house supply anyway. sole reason beeing looped?

when I installed my EV charger (2 years ago), I contacted pod-point, they managed all the EV grants and I had to pay the difference. I am not aware that they had to contact grid Operator for that. And this was semi, built in 1980s so maybe at this point my connection was already fine.

very interesting

They are supposed to check the incoming supply. Here out in the sticks local leccy guy has authority to cut and replace DNO seals to visually check the fuse rating. As it goes I have 2 extra 60A supply lines from house running to barn and shed but use common-sense when it comes to how many things are switched on at once. DNO has no way to know if you have a car plugged in while wife has the oven and washers on and several fridges/freezers, PC's etc plus say a welder and a couple of kettles and a few security lights and then adds the immersion heater...

 

[bingbongbing]

Its costing me £1280 to have a 3 phase supply fitted, that should give me 22kw of charge, or 11kw with the model 3.

Really is dependant on every house.

 

[Adopado]

I wonder why you applied to network operator, when 7kW charger is essentially 3 kettles on at the same time.

Ah, if only that were so simple! How many times have you run one kettle continuously for up to 8 hours? And you have to multiply that by 3. That's before taking account of all the other domestic demands which in some houses includes immersion heater, electric heating/cooling, oven(s), hob, 8kW shower, pumps, fridge freezers etc etc

 

[scdoubleu]

I wonder why you applied to network operator, when 7kW charger is essentially 3 kettles on at the same time. and it comes from the house supply anyway. sole reason beeing looped?

Those hypothetical 3 kettles will be pulling a combined 7 kW for only a few minutes. EV chargers can pull that much for many hours. The heat build-up in the DNO's cables and transformers, particularly when/if several households are doing the same, has the potential to trip protection devices. As mentioned earlier, the local distribution network is not designed for continuous high loads.

 

[yessuz]

Ah, if only that were so simple! How many times have you run one kettle continuously for up to 8 hours? And you have to multiply that by 3. That's before taking account of all the other domestic demands which in some houses includes immersion heater, electric heating/cooling, oven(s), hob, 8kW shower, pumps, fridge freezers etc etc

well I fully understand that
But I have my kettle, oven and washing machine running at the same time as well.

I mean. there's a reason why all power plant operators in UK used to have TV in Power Plant Operation room

Btw - pumps and fridges are comparatively low wattage equipment, especially new A class and better.

You should also take into account, that houses (and power supply) previously were planned with standard heat bulbs, 60-100w each in mind and not LED (6 w each) in mind as well.

 

[pgkevet]

Its costing me £1280 to have a 3 phase supply fitted, that should give me 22kw of charge, or 11kw with the model 3.

Really is dependant on every house.

Or stick 3x7Kw chargers up and start a tearoom?

 

[Adopado]

well I fully understand that
But I have my kettle, oven and washing machine running at the same time as well.

I mean. there's a reason why all power plant operators in UK used to have TV in Power Plant Operation room

Btw - pumps and fridges are comparatively low wattage equipment, especially new A class and better.

You should also take into account, that houses (and power supply) previously were planned with standard heat bulbs, 60-100w each in mind and not LED (6 w each) in mind as well.

Unfortunately even if we can say it's within capacity for one individual property the calculation used for the provision of power distribution hardware for a group of houses is based on a much lower figure per property. There's no problem at the generation and high voltage distribution end (so long as they have the TV in their operation room*) and Everyone boiling kettles for 3 minutes at the same time in their houses may warm things up at the substation but if/when they are all charging vehicles something's got to give. An extreme example is our own "substation" which is a rusty metal box up a wooden pole that supplies a handful of properties but only our house is charging a vehicle. If anyone else were to request permission to install a charge point they would either be refused or the DNO would have to agree to replace it with an uprated transformer. This "problem" nationally requires more planning and funding than is presently the case.

*not quite as dramatic an issue nowadays that there are so many different ways of watching "TV" whereas in the past 20 million people would all have a tea break at the same time after watching Coronation St

 

[PITA]

I wonder why you applied to network operator, when 7kW charger is essentially 3 kettles on at the same time. and it comes from the house supply anyway. sole reason beeing looped?

when I installed my EV charger (2 years ago), I contacted pod-point, they managed all the EV grants and I had to pay the difference. I am not aware that they had to contact grid Operator for that. And this was semi, built in 1980s so maybe at this point my connection was already fine.

very interesting

Have a read of this...

What is a DNO? | Smart Home Charge

Car charger installers must notify your DNO before your installation can go ahead. But what is a DNO and how can it affect your installation?

www.smarthomecharge.co.uk

(It does make me wonder how many DIY or Unregistered EV Chargers are installed around the country. Must be a headache for DNO's ... and fire risk)

Electrics for car charger catch fire at house

CREWS were called to an electrical fire this morning at a house in Bicester.

www.oxfordmail.co.uk

 

[PITA]

Have a read of this sorry tale of woe... DIY EV Installation...

With smoke damage pictures... plus some very good 'experience' recommendations.

A cautionary tale of severe electrical fire

www.speakev.com

 

[Leejmoff]

Have a read of this...

What is a DNO? | Smart Home Charge

Car charger installers must notify your DNO before your installation can go ahead. But what is a DNO and how can it affect your installation?

www.smarthomecharge.co.uk

(It does make me wonder how many DIY or Unregistered EV Chargers are installed around the country. Must be a headache for DNO's ... and fire risk)

Electrics for car charger catch fire at house

CREWS were called to an electrical fire this morning at a house in Bicester.

www.oxfordmail.co.uk

Oh I dug into a deep hole about DNO, meter tails etc when I had to get my wall charger installed. I didn't realise how bloody stupid the whole thing is. I only wanted to upgrade my main fuse, but ended up with what felt like hundreds of calls just to get a couple of wires changed over. But it had to be done in a certain order. Absolute joke but glad I did it now.

 

[yessuz]

I guess there's some really good benefits of new-ish properties...