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Who has lost regen with winter tires?

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Regardless of what the problem is, it's extremely messed up that the display shows full regen but it's simply not there. Say what you will about the Leaf, and it has its temperature problems too - but the "bubble" display showing possible regen at any given time is always accurate.

Letting off the accelerator with no dots on the regen line and experiencing no slowdown when you expect it increases your stopping distance and is somewhat, though not catastrophically, unsafe.
 
Regardless of what the problem is, it's extremely messed up that the display shows full regen but it's simply not there. Say what you will about the Leaf, and it has its temperature problems too - but the "bubble" display showing possible regen at any given time is always accurate.

Letting off the accelerator with no dots on the regen line and experiencing no slowdown when you expect it increases your stopping distance and is somewhat, though not catastrophically, unsafe.

I love my car... but Tesla certainly has gotten a free pass on many issues. The latest being all the winter condition and ice nonsense. Myself and others assumed that Tesla had done their due diligence and using their experience with the Model S/X they incorporated enough into the Model 3 design so that the car would perform properly in the winter. This would include dealing with winter tires. Now there are issues about ice build up causing problems with the window retrenchment during door opening and the door handles not popping. I suspect both could have been prevented with some minimal heating strips in the doors and along the window jam - but alas they are not there so now there is a problem. Shame on Tesla :( I hope they can resolve these latest ice issues and issues with winter tires soon.
 
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Regardless of what the problem is, it's extremely messed up that the display shows full regen but it's simply not there. Say what you will about the Leaf, and it has its temperature problems too - but the "bubble" display showing possible regen at any given time is always accurate.

Letting off the accelerator with no dots on the regen line and experiencing no slowdown when you expect it increases your stopping distance and is somewhat, though not catastrophically, unsafe.

On RWD cars, where winter tires definitely cause the regen issue, the regen display is accurate (it shows no regen and you get no regen).
 
I'd love to reframe this question a little bit.

You're driving a TM3 RWD with Tesla approved winter tires that displays no regenerative issues. Approaching a light doing 80km/h (the speed limit), you unknowingly find yourself on black ice. When you let go of the accelerator, the car detects the tires slipping and doesn't active regenerative breaking to prevent the loss of traction (as designed). What do you want the car to do? Regenerate and spin? Break for you? Beep? Not do anything, and let you take the next action you want to take (apply break, swerve to avoid cars, etc..?)

This seems like a complex problem. I had Nokian R2 tires on my RWD high-performance car. The car never accelerated properly on dry pavement at temperatures around freezing and upwards. The car detected traction issues, and I could have floored it all I wanted to get on the highway, but there'd be no acceleration from the car. I learned that in warmer temperatures, I'd have to slowly accelerate unto the highway, and I was aware of it and avoided situations where I needed high-acceleration passing under those conditions. I didn't go to BMW to tell them they're wrong (I also didn't use BMW-approved tires).

It's different with breaking, of course. I'm not saying there's not a problem to be fixed here. There is. But I am saying that for those frustrated, this is a difficult problem to fix. Where do you cancel out the cars slip detection with rubber compound? Is the Nokian R3 the right tire for a car that has strong regenerative breaking for the way you drive in the conditions you drive? (I understand there have been reports of it happening with "Tesla approved" tires but does seem more prominent with the R3s.)

Temperature will absolutely help mitigate this. In January and February I never had a problem with my old RWD accelerating. But I always put those tires in late, and took them off early, because I was avoiding the 'slightly or more above zero' weather. Eventually I decided that (for me, I'm not making any decisions for you) with how frequently I drive and the frequent temperature changes in Toronto, winter tires that aren't quite as good as the R3s were better choice because I, overall, felt safer in a car that performed consistently (and I rarely ever drive on snow, and have the option of avoiding it, so really I didn't have the need for them). Saying that, driving the RWD car with Nokian R2 tires no matter how bad the snow got was amazing. They really are terrific tires! But for me, it's situational, and it's a situation I could (generally) avoid.

There's a problem. It's a hard one to fix. Be prepared for regenerative breaking not to activate because road conditions don't allow for it. And yes, absolutely, Tesla should tell drivers regenerative breaking doesn't work with certain (or all) winter tires because damn, that's dangerous when you experience it for the first time.
 
I will add, BMWs traction control is absolutely fantastic. I don't think you can use the argument that just "My Leaf never gave me faded acceleration issues in warm weather with winter tires so therefore it was better then your BMW." Naw. The BMW was meant to drive and break fast. It responds differently. Tesla is a high-performance car. It's not your Leaf. It's traction control system is (more likely) exceedingly better. It certainly has to manage a heavier and faster car. I know not everyone buys a Tesla because of the performance, but I do think it's important to take that into account.
 
Lol, I love those responses on car forums. There's always the dudes who have hit the Flavor-Aid a little too hard and start doing the "that flaw you noticed in the expensive car, that's not present in the cheap car? That's because this is a real man's performance car, you little punk" routine. Even the water boy over here admits that it's dangerous.

So have *other* people experienced this with AWD? Because it seems limited to RWD. And regardless of the valod point that RWDs outnumber AWDs for now, those AWDs also likely overindex to colder climates.
 
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Lol, I love those responses on car forums. There's always the dudes who have hit the Flavor-Aid a little too hard and start doing the "that flaw you noticed in the expensive car, that's not present in the cheap car? That's because this is a real man's performance car, you little punk" routine. Even the water boy over here admits that it's dangerous.

Never used a sexist term to suggest who drives which car. I'm not judging anyone on buying a reasonably priced car.

I think we can agree that the Leaf and Tesla have extremely different traction requirements based on speed, weight, and cornering requirements. If you think this statement is too broey for you, oh well?
 
Dude isn't a sexist term, lol. Everyone is a dude to me, friendo. Feel free to report me for sexism.

Stop carrying water for Elon. This is a real problem and the fact that a ten year old, far cheaper car can handle it just fine doesn't speak well for this model.

That's kind of my point, cheaper cars do tend to perform better under all sorts of driving conditions. The Honda Civic has much better breaking distance that a TM3. It's lighter, has smaller tires, etc.. You might even be able to drive it safer at higher speeds over snow conditions because of the thinner tires.

I wasn't accusing you of using the sexist term 'dude', I was saying that I had absolutely no sexist implication in my original posting, and you implied that there was. I'm not being broey (or whatever), I'm stating that high-performance cars aren't the best at everything, and all the reasons the make them fast, and maneuverable on high speeds, make them worst at other things.
 
Please post your experience Tony

Just picked up the car and drove for around 7-10kms or so. Definitely feeling the absence of regen. The green bar maxes out the available regen limit but almost nothing is felt. It's 0c where I am right now.

Tire noise is definitely louder but that's usually par for the course with winter compounds.
 
Just picked up the car and drove for around 7-10kms or so. Definitely feeling the absence of regen. The green bar maxes out the available regen limit but almost nothing is felt. It's 0c where I am right now.

Tire noise is definitely louder but that's usually par for the course with winter compounds.

Same issue for me. LR RWD. Using the Tesla 18" Winter Package with Sottozeros. Regen has been wonky the day I put the tires on, even with a fully warm battery.

I notice going around corners regen is completley cut off. Generally regen is inconsistent (sometimes heavy, sometimes green bar all the way but car is freewheeling).

Surprised that changing tires would do this. My initial thought was that it was because of a cold battery, but who knows.
 
Which tires did you get?

Nokian Hakka R3s

Tony, you're in a RWD right?

Yes!

Same issue for me. LR RWD. Using the Tesla 18" Winter Package with Sottozeros. Regen has been wonky the day I put the tires on, even with a fully warm battery.

I notice going around corners regen is completley cut off. Generally regen is inconsistent (sometimes heavy, sometimes green bar all the way but car is freewheeling).

Surprised that changing tires would do this. My initial thought was that it was because of a cold battery, but who knows.

We need to wait for the fix for this from Tesla. It's in their court now.
 
All,
I have a RWD model 3 and have I believe experienced the limited regen with winter tires. Rather than going by gut feel I decided to get some empirical data. I've hosted it in a google spreadsheet. I recorded a video of my car with winter tires decelerating from ~45mph to ~12mph and went frame by frame to create a graph. Then I took two youtube videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4TpAZZvO1Y & https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8dw4g95eWQ and did the same thing.
Note: These were three different cars running potentially three different software versions, if I get the motiviation this weekend I may swap tires to get a more apples to apples comparison, maybe Tesla will fix it before then.
In the meantime if anyone would like to link me to a video of their speedometer in a car with full regen capability(warm battery) I can add it to the sheet to compare(either summer or winter tires, AWD or RWD).

Anyways the takeaway is with summer tires see about 60% more regen in the 20-40mph range, and regen about equal in the <20mph range
Comparing 30mph as a datapoint
Canuck (winter) = -1.15 m/s^2
My car (winter) = -1.00 m/s^2
Nick's (summer) = -1.92 m/s^2
Capture.PNG


Here is the google spreadsheet link if you want to take a look Tesla Regen Research