Why I recommend AGAINST buying a Tesla

[Pruitt]

I received my S90D on 25 March, 2016.

It was a fantastic car. I recommended them to everyone. My 12-hour trip between Charleston, South Carolina and Merchantville, New Jersey took 14 hours with the Tesla because of charging stops, but I knew that would be the case going in, and all the other features of the car (including the free charging on the road) easily offset that inconvenience.

Besides, from its inception until about two years ago, Tesla seemed to be genuinely "partnering" with their customers on the whole electric vehicle experience.

Then the software downgrades began. One of the biggest ones was, of course, the unannounced and draconic degrading of my charge rate. This was apparently compounded later with additional degrading. All with no notification from Tesla.

The last time I checked, my 12 hour ICE drive was now over 16 with the Tesla - over FOUR HOURS of charging. That was a year and a half ago.

Since then I've made several trips from New Jersey to Wyoming and back in the Tesla. My time at chargers amounts to a full third of my total road time. That's one third of the time I'm on the road. Any idea what that does to your average rate of travel? If you drive at a sustained 70 mph, your total average trip speed is about 46 1/2 mph!

So maybe I was just unfortunate to have purchased a 90 kw battery? Then more recently I heard about the draconian attack on non-90kw battery charge rates AND max charge levels. Some with almost new cars have reported something similar - even in a few Model 3's!

So how can Tesla be trusted to stand behind any of their products? Answer: they can't. They seem to think it's okay to degrade anything that might become a warranty issue (read: financial liability) for the company.

So when people ask about the car, I tell them about the great features, how fun it is to drive, etc. Then I tell them about the underhanded way (IMO) Tesla has dealt with the early car purchasers, and how they should avoid buying a Tesla until all this is straightened out by the courts.

I hate doing that, but even though Tesla's collective conscience may be unfazed by their treatment of loyal customers, mine will not allow me to recommend a product produced by a company that behaves in this manner.

 

[ucmndd]

Ok.

 

[iRia]

There's a thread over in battery and charging sub forum about this.

 

[Destiny1701]

I received my S90D on 25 March, 2016.

It was a fantastic car. I recommended them to everyone. My 12-hour trip between Charleston, South Carolina and Merchantville, New Jersey took 14 hours with the Tesla because of charging stops, but I knew that would be the case going in, and all the other features of the car (including the free charging on the road) easily offset that inconvenience.

Besides, from its inception until about two years ago, Tesla seemed to be genuinely "partnering" with their customers on the whole electric vehicle experience.

Then the software downgrades began. One of the biggest ones was, of course, the unannounced and draconic degrading of my charge rate. This was apparently compounded later with additional degrading. All with no notification from Tesla.

The last time I checked, my 12 hour ICE drive was now over 16 with the Tesla - over FOUR HOURS of charging. That was a year and a half ago.

Since then I've made several trips from New Jersey to Wyoming and back in the Tesla. My time at chargers amounts to a full third of my total road time. That's one third of the time I'm on the road. Any idea what that does to your average rate of travel? If you drive at a sustained 70 mph, your total average trip speed is about 46 1/2 mph!

So maybe I was just unfortunate to have purchased a 90 kw battery? Then more recently I heard about the draconian attack on non-90kw battery charge rates AND max charge levels. Some with almost new cars have reported something similar - even in a few Model 3's!

So how can Tesla be trusted to stand behind any of their products? Answer: they can't. They seem to think it's okay to degrade anything that might become a warranty issue (read: financial liability) for the company.

So when people ask about the car, I tell them about the great features, how fun it is to drive, etc. Then I tell them about the underhanded way (IMO) Tesla has dealt with the early car purchasers, and how they should avoid buying a Tesla until all this is straightened out by the courts.

I hate doing that, but even though Tesla's collective conscience may be unfazed by their treatment of loyal customers, mine will not allow me to recommend a product produced by a company that behaves in this manner.

I completely agree the downgrading of features with every new iteration or version as well as charging rate. Version 7 was quick, efficient. Version 8 changed it up slightly, version 9 destroyed split screen and version 10 chalk full of glitches.

I used to own a March 26th bought 2016 90D as well and upgraded to a 2018 100D thinking it wouldn’t get better. Nope. My latest charging at a local SC put me at 52kw and 300km/hr max chsrging rate as compared to 700km/hr last summer.

My browser no longer works, the app heat setting works intermittently, fan settings never stick, Navi screen refreshes slower every 6 months or so.

I will say however...AP2 has improved quite a bit from its early days.

Having said all this...LOVE the drive. NOT the company for ignoring early adopters who in small ways helped get the company where it is. Even the latest one pedal driving...only for Ravens? Why? It’s a software update which all AP Tesla’s have the hardware for.

 

[kimvellore]

"LOVE the drive. Not the company." so true. For me It was other reasons still I got a second tesla in less than a year. I fought with them for months to take back my first car which they damaged and I was exposed to how they work and what values they stand for. Not a fan of the company. Today if there was another car that is as good as tesla in drive and cost I will switch but there is none...

 

[Simon_Emes]

Taycan, etron, EQC, they have arrived guys. It will be healthy if some of us switch. With fast charger arriving everywhere superchargers have no advantage any more. I am a short term owner, just 4 months, love the drive, but had loaners for 7 weeks already and wonder whether I should've waited to go electric another half year and gotten an etron or so.

Not bering able to call for customer service simply sucks. Even no call back possible when the car is already in service. WTF???

 

[ucmndd]

With fast charger arriving everywhere superchargers have no advantage any more.

I understand your sentiment and someday this might be true, but as of today it’s a fully asinine statement.

Put another way, it’s a good thing the Taycan charges fast because it only goes half as far...

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I understand your sentiment and someday this might be true, but as of today it’s a fully asinine statement.

Put another way, it’s a good thing the Taycan charges fast because it only goes half as far...

Half as far on paper
Three fourths of the way in real life
The same in a couple years when Tesla pushes a SW update to "fix" something.

Tesla also doesn't have what I'd consider a direct competitor to the Taycan.

The P3D is way cheaper, and really a different class of car. I got this when it became apparent that the Taycan wouldn't come in anywhere close in price/specs as it was supposed to be.

The Model S is still waiting for it's track focused plaid version. It's so bad with the Model S that Elon referred to it as basically a legacy product.

Porsche will likely get a quite a few orders from angry Model S owners especially if Porsche can be more competitive price wise.

 

[azred]

Fine

 

[TMThree]

Taycan, etron, EQC, they have arrived guys. It will be healthy if some of us switch. With fast charger arriving everywhere superchargers have no advantage any more.

ROFL! If OP hates charging, he's going to have a hell of a time with 201 mile / 488 Wh rated Taycan. Add in 80 mph driving, and 90-10% SoC and he'll be recharging every 100 miles.

 

[ucmndd]

Tesla also doesn't have what I'd consider a direct competitor to the Taycan.

The P3D is way cheaper, and really a different class of car. I got this when it became apparent that the Taycan wouldn't come in anywhere close in price/specs as it was supposed to be.

Fully agree, which is sort of my point. Most people buying EVs are looking for practical transport that can enable reasonably convenient long distance travel when necessary. Challenges aside, Tesla is still the only company delivering any reasonable interpretation of that typical use case. As they currently perform, and with the current (non-)availability of non-Tesla DC fast charging, I'd never consider a Taycan, e-Tron, or any other EV on the market as of today. The original point I was responding to - "superchargers have no advantage any more" - I still find to be categorically false.

 

[Silicon Desert]

hmmmmm, after reading this, I thought I should drive the Tesla off a cliff and buy a horse, but then realized it would take longer for it to eat than time to charge my car and it can only trot at about 10 miles an hour
Said another way, I guess I am fortunate I don't have any of the issues mention by folks above with my 2016 X. Having said that, maybe I should go to the garage and see if the car is dead or alive

 

[ucmndd]

I keep finding more in your post to respond to.

Half as far on paper
Three fourths of the way in real life

The Raven Model S has been demonstrated to achieve ~350 miles in reasonable continuous driving. What makes you think the Taycan is going to get anywhere close to that in real life?

It's so bad with the Model S that Elon referred to it as basically a legacy product.

This is a fully absurd mischaracterization of that comment.

Even as it sits now, the Model S is a reasonable to superior competitor to the Taycan in basically everything except 10/10ths track driving.

 

[Simon_Emes]

Yeah. Get off your high horses. Here in Europe Ford, BMW, Mercedes, Volkswagen and Hyundai have teamed up and built a fast charger network. At least where I live that competes well with Tesla, in a better route planner one, even with superchargers as a preference, gets mostly those suggested to push down travel time. So add the service network and one starts wondering whether Tesla is the only bev delivering. That was true until a couple of months ago, now it is not any longer. Of course each has specific advantages and disadvantages like the low range of the etron, but it charges pretty darn fast and the EQC is in another league of luxury for the same price as a non performance Tesla.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Yes, you are unfortunate to have purchased a 90. That was clearly a bad battery.

 

[ucmndd]

Yeah. Get off your high horses. Here in Europe Ford, BMW, Mercedes, Volkswagen and Hyundai have teamed up and built a fast charger network. At least where I live that competes well with Tesla, in a better route planner one, even with superchargers as a preference, gets mostly those suggested to push down travel time. So add the service network and one starts wondering whether Tesla is the only bev delivering. That was true until a couple of months ago, now it is not any longer. Of course each has specific advantages and disadvantages like the low range of the etron, but it charges pretty darn fast and the EQC is in another league of luxury for the same price as a non performance Tesla.

All valid points for a discussion in Europe, but fully irrelevant in the US.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Even as it sits now, the Model S is a reasonable to superior competitor to the Taycan in basically everything except 10/10ths track driving.

The entire point to a Porsche is that it's a track focused car that can be used on the street even if someone doesn't take it the track.

With range, and efficiency the Model S has it beat especially with the Raven variant. There is no question about that. The part about 3/4th on paper is a joke about Tesla inflating the EPA numbers. Like when they tried to say all Model 3 LR variants had the same 310 range. It's also a bit of a joke on the EPA numbers in general. They don't mean a whole lot when so much of the range is based on what your commute is, driving style, and on the weather.

I won't really know what the REAL world freeway range of the Taycan is until they get into the hands of consumers to actually test them out. I have basically a working range of 200 miles in my P3D on the freeway. It's a range that I feel I can fairly easy accomplish with still around 10% left at the end. During the summer it's easy to get that, and during the winters I might end up cutting it a bit close. I definitely think the Taycan would be well under that, and the P100D Raven variant to be well above that. But, it remains to be seen what the difference actually will when both are equipped with similar tires and driven at similar speeds/conditions.

I haven't really seen Raven variants pop out on TeslaFI's leadership board. If it's easy to hit 350 on a road trip then I'd expect to see the leader board have a minimum of 350 miles to even get on it. Right now you only have to exceed 265 miles to get on it. I don't think we really will because people generally speed up when they see they have more range unless they're already going their max speed that they're okay with. Like when I do a road trip in my P3D I keep within 10 over of the speed limit, and I keep above 10% of the battery left estimation for my destination using the trip planner thing. My speed is whatever works for both of those two things, and traffic.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Taycan, etron, EQC, they have arrived guys. It will be healthy if some of us switch. With fast charger arriving everywhere superchargers have no advantage any more. I am a short term owner, just 4 months, love the drive, but had loaners for 7 weeks already and wonder whether I should've waited to go electric another half year and gotten an etron or so.

Not bering able to call for customer service simply sucks. Even no call back possible when the car is already in service. WTF???

Not for us North American people.

The EQC has been delayed
The eTron isn't all that popular here
The Taycan its too early to tell. But, it does seem to give Tesla the most competition in terms of performance so that's great thing.

Europe is a much more competitive landscape for EV's than the US. You guys have the CCS standard, and in the states we do have Electrify America but Tesla owners can't really utilize them right now. There is no CCS adapter for the Tesla yet.

 

[dark cloud]

I

The last time I checked, my 12 hour ICE drive was now over 16 with the Tesla - over FOUR HOURS of charging. That was a year and a half ago.
.

Ok, but I would rather be in my Model S for 16 hours than any ice for 12 hours, because I wouldn't be standing with a stinky pump in my hands for over a QUARTER OF AN HOUR.

 

[X Fan]

Taycan, etron, EQC, they have arrived guys. It will be healthy if some of us switch. With fast charger arriving everywhere superchargers have no advantage any more. I am a short term owner, just 4 months, love the drive, but had loaners for 7 weeks already and wonder whether I should've waited to go electric another half year and gotten an etron or so.

Not bering able to call for customer service simply sucks. Even no call back possible when the car is already in service. WTF???

lol @ Etron comment....take a look at the Audi forum and report back.....there are problems galore with that vehicle and of course the Taycan's rated mileage is a joke.