Will Tesla make the "by the end of January 2015" promise for torque sleep? (P85D)

[darthy001]

Thousand per week is entirely different than thousands per week. Has nothing to do with grammar. He doesn't need to add the 's' to make his point, which I did not reference as more or less accurate based on it.

Point taken as the post was written in haste.

BUT as NigelM correctly pointed out my underlying point still remains as I was in fact referring to the comment about Tesla being a startup company when writing that sentence. Not many startups building one thousand cars a week that I know of. Especially in the Tesla price-range

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E

While I would never consider legal action (and would not suggest/support anyone else engaging in it) I also feel that giving TM a total 'pass' and asking everyone to just 'chill' is not right either. I was at the 'D' event and have watched the video of it over at the TM forum several times. It is clearly stated that the P85D, while having more weight would greater range than the P85. Not sometime in the future but now. Several people purchased it based on the thought that they would have a faster 0-60 time, higher top speed, and longer range. The original OP has every right to be frustrated that after his own extensive testing that his P85D has 15%+ less range than his P85. Hearing everyone's frustration, TM came out with a timeline to remedy this discrepancy by being able to torque vector the motors thereby increasing overall efficiency and range. TM may still make that timeline but I doubt it.

I voted 'yes' in the poll when it was first posted. I agree with the sentiment that TM has sublime service and the car is constantly improving by firmware updates. I, like many here, have invested heavily in the cars and the stock of this company. If I personally never see a single mile of range increase in my vehicles I am OK with that as my driving is within 30-40 miles of my home 99% of the time. However, I believe the OP, and people of like minds, have every reason to be frustrated with TM.

Exactly. Tesla needs to get a grip on what they are communicating to their customers. That is my underlying concern here. I am still waiting eagerly for my P85D even if it now seems possible that it wont get the torquesleep before I get my hands on it.

Why not update the blog with "we are ironing out the last few bugs and will be releasing the firmware-update as soon as we feel it is up to the high standards you have come to expect from Tesla Motors"? Instead we have a new round of wondering what the **** is going on...... This cannot be so hard to get a grip of.

 

[Canuck]

Tesla has such a great product that it speaks for itself. I really wish they wouldn't make promises unless they are absolutely certain they can keep them. Their conduct in this regard makes their product less appealing, and that's something that's tough to do in itself.

If they published the current specs of the P85D, and then said what the future specs would be, with a timeline they can meet, perhaps delayed even further for unexpected issues, then release it sooner, I doubt they'd lose any sales. People would sing their praises for delivering early on expectations.

Practically everyone drives in the "daily" range and 15% makes no real difference unless going on trips, and the car is plenty fast without the updates. There's absolutely no need to over promise and under deliver with this product.

 

[skilly]

I agree with you statement. IT is a great car and a great car company. They bend backwards for you, IMO, it is the best car in the world. The service is beyond expectations. I know so, i have an ice vehicle and I expectations is so much lower when it come to the service i receive. VW doesn't offer any GPS updates.. , well at 500$ cost, No thanks. I get my Touareg in and they charge me 25dollars a day for a rental while my SUV is in the shop! Don't forget i have to deal with overpriced oil changes!

I can understand the "chill out" and other colorful words to invite another perspective; however, the call for TM support is blurring two separate paradigms. Calming words for unreal expectations seem reasonable. For example, if the owner was upset and feeling mislead because all of the autopilot features werent available today (or perhaps this year), I would echo the sentiment; it would be appropriate. The range issue is hardly that kind of situation.

P85D owners were sold a very expensive car (in fact people are still purchasing) predicated on the features that were advertised as available at the time of purchase. Not future technology but advertised as available today. Upon delivery they (we) determined that the P85D does not come close to the as advertised range...and this is fundamental to the usefulness of the car. The whole gold star for "doing the best that they can" really rubs me the wrong way. Its a great way to celebrate mediocrity, and by no means is it how the broader market works or how TM becomes a great company - you thing that a publically traded company has a conscience or feelings? They don't except to ultimately make money - even those changing the world like TM.

With these kinds of issues I think its actually important to look at it from the other perspective...instead of sitting quietly, we should keep pressure on to deliver excellence - keep TM accountable for fulfilling their market promises. They shouldn't get a pass for saying one thing and doing another. I'm not battle crying for everyone to "lawyer up" but sitting there thankful that I almost got the car that I fully paid for doesn't sit well either.

 

[Rice390]

I was thinking "somebody just needs to take the mic out of Elons hands. And shut down that Twitter account". I think that would solve 50% of the issue.

But then I thought of the flip side. What if you had a company where the only information you ever got was from one of the hundreds of salesmen at dealerships, who really don't know what the hell is going on up top.

ive been frustrated in the past, but I've learned to just sit back and enjoy what I have today.

Fool me once, shame on Tesla.
Fool me twice, shame on Me.
Fool me 30 times, hey welcome to tesla motors club.

 

[wk057]

I suppose it really does all boil down to communication. If I had been told up front that the car would have 15+% less range than the P85 but that this would be corrected in the months following delivery I personally would have been fine with that. The fact that I had to find this out for myself on day 1 and 2 of owning the P85D (a ~200 mile trip and a ~600 mile trip respectively) without realizing the range was so significantly impacted is what bothers me the most about this.

Only as I was performing a publicized side-by-side test on Dec 31 did Tesla post a blog about increasing efficiency with a software update coming in the end of January. I obviously can't say for sure, but the thought has crossed my mind that this post was in direct response to my testing. It was literally posted while I was driving for the side-by-side test.

I'm already giving them a pass by ignoring the fact that this was never disclosed prior and waiting their after-the-fact specified time frame. I think that's pretty lenient of me, honestly. As others have mentioned, this is the third Model S I have purchased, so it's not like I don't support the company. I took a decent hit on the P85 trade to make the P85D happen, only to have some things fall short of expectations and promises (mainly the range issue, but a few others). I think it is pretty reasonable to have what I ordered and was promised.

People talk about OTA updates like they're just free additions to the vehicle. In the case of features of the P85D, as I mentioned previously, they simply aren't. The range fix update is something due to P85D owners by Tesla. This is not something that adds range on top of what was promised or what was on the window sticker. This update is to bring the car up to the spec purchased. Autopilot updates? Sorry, those weren't "free" either. I and many others paid for those as well and those are also due to us.

This isn't rocket science (pun intended). We purchased vehicles with an advertised (and legally binding via purchase documents) set of specs and features. Expecting the vehicle to match those specs and have those features in a reasonable time frame is not crazy. It would certainly be reasonable for myself or anyone to pursue legal remedies if necessary to actually be made whole with regard to the purchase, one way or another. I seriously hope it doesn't come to that, but I personally am not going to forsake the option just because it's Tesla.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Anyhoo, the bottom line is that Elon and Tesla aren't going to change anytime soon. They will continue to give over optimistic timelines, like all engineers do, and continue to make cutting edge products that no one else makes, like all good engineers do. Personally, I really like this company, warts and all.

 

[AlMc]

Anyhoo, the bottom line is that Elon and Tesla aren't going to change anytime soon. They will continue to give over optimistic timelines, like all engineers do, and continue to make cutting edge products that no one else makes, like all good engineers do. Personally, I really like this company, warts and all.

So do I, just wish we had some Compound W for the warts.:wink:

 

[Canuck]

Anyhoo, the bottom line is that Elon and Tesla aren't going to change anytime soon.

I think they'll learn from these lessons and change. Or at least I'm hoping they will.

They will continue to give over optimistic timelines, like all engineers do, and continue to make cutting edge products that no one else makes, like all good engineers do.

There are engineers who don't give over optimistic timelines at other companies that make cutting edge products.

Personally, I really like this company, warts and all.

I really like the company. I don't like the warts at all.

 

[PlanB]

I think they'll learn from these lessons and change. Or at least I'm hoping they will.



There are engineers who don't give over optimistic timelines at other companies that make cutting edge products.



I really like the company. I don't like the warts at all.

I like you, you should be a moderator on this site.

 

[Canuck]

I like you, you should be a moderator on this site.

Thanks!

 

[anticitizen13.7]

Anyhoo, the bottom line is that Elon and Tesla aren't going to change anytime soon. They will continue to give over optimistic timelines, like all engineers do, and continue to make cutting edge products that no one else makes, like all good engineers do. Personally, I really like this company, warts and all.

I like Tesla too, but I've also raised the point several times that these sorts of "warts" aren't going to fly when Tesla goes mass-market with Model 3. They already aren't flying with at least some members of the loyal Model S customer base.

With the Roadster and early production Model S, I think there was an understanding among buyers that they were participating in a novel experiment. As the Tesla customer base has expanded outside early adopters though, there are far more people who just expect the car to work as advertised. Improvements through OTA updates are icing on the cake. Few people buy a car expecting things to be unfinished. A car is an indispensable tool for many people if they rely on it for work commuting and errands.

If Model 3 sells in the 100s of thousands per year, the car needs to work as advertised from Day One. In Tesla's defense, I think that there's some realization of this, because Elon has stated that Model X is delayed a few months precisely because Tesla wants to get it right.

 

[bonnie]

If Model 3 sells in the 100s of thousands per year, the car needs to work as advertised from Day One. In Tesla's defense, I think that there's some realization of this, because Elon has stated that Model X is delayed a few months precisely because Tesla wants to get it right.

A few months? I'm patiently waiting, this isn't a complaint ... but it's been the longest 'few months' on record.

 

[Andyw2100]

In Tesla's defense, I think that there's some realization of this, because Elon has stated that Model X is delayed a few months precisely because Tesla wants to get it right.

A few months? I'm patiently waiting, this isn't a complaint ... but it's been the longest 'few months' on record.

Elon months, Bonnie. Elon months.

 

[zzzzdoc]

Looks like February to me on my calendar.

Just sayin...

 

[EarlyAdopter]

Looks like February to me on my calendar.

Just sayin...

Tesla's out here on the left coast, so they still have an hour left...

 

[MarcG]

Looks like the 73% (including myself) who answered the poll with "Nope, will be late" were right in the end.
Turns out it's much better to live in pessimism (some may say "realism"...) so there is no disappointment when Tesla misses the mark over and over again.

By the way, it's the same story with the ChaDeMo adapter that Jerome claimed would be on sale to the general public in January 2015 (a statement he made in December 2014).
Still says "coming soon" on the accessories page, just like it been saying for the last year or so...

 

[darthy001]

Tesla's out here on the left coast, so they still have an hour left...

Hehehe, where do they have to be spending their weekend to have some january left now?

 

[andrewket]

Should we start a new poll? Feb or March? Or which week in Feb?

 

[403portside]

Wow. Really can't believe that after all of the opportunities to communicate range issues, delays due to seats, etc in the last few months, that Tesla execs didn't band together and say "Look, no matter what happens with the range update we promised at the end of Jan, we have got to communicate with our customers if there's even more of a delay.". Really just bewildering and borderline arrogance at this point.

 

[Mario Kadastik]

By the way, it's the same story with the ChaDeMo adapter that Jerome claimed would be on sale to the general public in January 2015 (a statement he made in December 2014).
Still says "coming soon" on the accessories page, just like it been saying for the last year or so...

At least one EU customer received his CHAdeMO adapter hand delivered by Tesla this week and he's not a beta tester. So the deliveries starting in January was actually met and surprisingly with an EU model of the adaptor which everyone assumed would be later than the US one. From what I've understood the adapters are in production and at first they will fill the backlog of orders both with cars as well as people placing themselves in a waiting list as the quantities will initially be limiting. I'd guess that's why the shop still has coming soon as there are plenty of pre-orders to fill first. I placed mine in November 2013 and know of at least one forum member who ordered in June 2013 and got word he's #59 in waiting list so should get one soon.