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Will Tesla make the "by the end of January 2015" promise for torque sleep? (P85D)

Will Tesla make the "by the end of January 2015" promise for torque sleep? (P85D)

  • Yes, as promised

    Votes: 33 27.0%
  • Nope, will be late

    Votes: 89 73.0%

  • Total voters
    122
  • Poll closed .
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Correct.

But promising (for something that doesn't exist) and overstating (exaggerating something) are two different things.

One is observable, the other can be ignored.
All of it is "advertising" (making claims).

If there isn't a third party verifiable test and result, or something you witness yourself, then it is a promise by a company a.k.a. marketing, or as I like to frame it "just talk".

Do you believe everything in a glossy brochure from any other car manufacturer? I don't.
There are so many asterisks and limiting statements on so many claims made... they've effectively trained me not to believe.

Strong charismatic leaders... are a problem in this area. When anyone equates what Tesla is doing with "Elon" as in a personal touch, you are squarely in the fan club.

I am a fan too! I love my car.

But I'm using the effective coping mechanism method... don't believe everything you hear.
People form Missouri get it... so the saying goes.

pretty sure you might be getting specification and marketing exaggeration mixed up... ;)

Isuzu Impulse Ad - YouTube
 
I agree with others that Tesla communications re-defines the worst case scenario. I think the only possible way it could be worse would be if they just called customers up to curse at them.

That said, I still think it's an amazing car, and if you compare the MPG promises for pretty much every car I've ever owned, the reality was quite different. Range with a Tesla is a bit of a different issue because refueling takes much longer, so Tesla has acknowledged the issue, and has promised to make it right.

It may take a few more weeks, and I'm not thrilled about that -- but I think for most people, it's really not the end of the world. I still think that it's the best overall car I've owned. For those who it is a major problem, if you'd like to return the car over the issue -- contact Tesla, and I am sure they will work something out.
 
That came up yesterday. It's still right to hold Tesla's feet to the fire on their promises; if we were to be all fanboys forgiving everything that wouldn't be helpful.
Along the lines of keeping Tesla's feet to the fire on expectations could we not have a Wiki page which states in clear terms what current customer expectations are and keep score of how well they are met? The URL of the Wiki could be (repeatedly) sent to Tesla to remind them what's going on with customer satisfaction. That would be easier than wading through all these threads. Thoughts?
 
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OK, admittedly I'm not affected by this one (since I proudly drive a Classic P85S)... but it is really the same pattern as many prior goofs, all having to do with 1) blurting out (or publishing) availability dates (mainly for software, but sometimes hardware), 2) missing them, and 3) not communicating.

IF there really is a new push starting Monday, and IF that new push includes torque sleep, and IF torque sleep lives up to the spec... then they are getting much better and just missed narrowly this time.
If any of those are not the case, I hope that the new/old marketing and communications guy steps up and gets in Elon's face on this one.

In many of these cases of mis-managed expectations, they really did not need to communicate regarding a coming feature at all... should have waited until they put it out. However, in this case of providing a post-delivery update that enabled the cars to meet spec; well, I think they HAD to indicate they were fixing it and when. The sin was in not communicating they'd miss January.

I'm not particularly upset for myself... they've always exceeded my expectations... eventually. But I know I'm not the only kind of customer, and as the customer base broadens, Tesla will need to satisfy many different types. Seems to me that best approach would be have someone (probably not Elon) tweet with revised dates or notice of "slight delay" prior to the deadline. A little communication would alleviate a lot of customer frustration.

I believe the approach Tesla has been taking is to try to pre-communicate ETAs, then take the time to get it right, and to always try to put a nice surprise in there (e.g., geographic raising that came with return of lowering, reported acceleration increase for PDs and Ps that may be coming with torque sleep). Personally, that usually buys me out of any anger about missing the date. But clearly doesn't work for everyone.
 
If there isn't a third party verifiable test and result, or something you witness yourself, then it is a promise by a company a.k.a. marketing, or as I like to frame it "just talk".

Do you believe everything in a glossy brochure from any other car manufacturer? I don't.
There are so many asterisks and limiting statements on so many claims made... they've effectively trained me not to believe.

I suspect you might feel differently if you experienced say 50% battery degradation after 5 years.

Tesla made mileage claims, didn't meet them, promised a correction, and missed the self-imposed deadline. Ok, you seem to be saying folks were wrong to believe Tesla, that's a condemnation of the company in itself. Not good.
 
I suspect you might feel differently if you experienced say 50% battery degradation after 5 years.

Tesla made mileage claims, didn't meet them, promised a correction, and missed the self-imposed deadline. Ok, you seem to be saying folks were wrong to believe Tesla, that's a condemnation of the company in itself. Not good.

Warranties are meant to sell cars and are another form of advertising: selling the goodwill of a company into your belief system.

In this example, I think Tesla warranty would cover a badly degraded battery, if they're still in business. Even if they claim their way out of it as "acceptable degrade" I think a judge may think not... but that's different matter. That would be a warranty claim. When anyone buys these cars they must suspect battery longevity and make a choice. You have to look at the oldest examples (Roadsters) as likelihood for their batteries to continue working, or the company to honor "anomalies". And based on that make a decision.

I actually bought my S before the drive train 8 year with infinite mile warranty came out.

If my battery caves in 5 years, I try for warranty claim, if Tesla exists. If they say "sorry", I see if there's a bigger claim to get involved in, class action, whatever. Last ditch, I would buy another battery at that time. Maybe not from Tesla. Maybe there'll be a better power source on the market at that time. I am willing to play that out, and is part of getting into the game.

If a person is terribly nervous and wants to play the game differently, do the lease, rolling trade-in every couple years, or just sell out in a couple years after having had the fun.

Mileage claims are held in check by third party verifiable tests and results. EPA ... there's lots of consumer action on false claims or non-achievable results. Do that if you feel ripped off.

A (future) promised mileage claim is different than seeing an EPA number on a window sticker. It's just a promise. I'm saying you have to keep Tesla's promises with a grain of salt, yes. Don't bank on it.
 
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A (future) promised mileage claim is different than seeing an EPA number on a window sticker. It's just a promise. I'm saying you have to keep Tesla's promises with a grain of salt, yes. Don't bank on it.

And you were doing so well with your arguments right up until this.

The numbers on the EPA stickers on the P85Ds are not the efficiency numbers we are getting. They are, hopefully, the numbers we'll be getting --AFTER-- the torque sleep firmware update that we knew nothing about when our cars were delivered with those window stickers. We found out about the firmware update when the blog post came out on December 31, and then probably only due to the fact that there had been a lot of complaining about why the cars were not as efficient as they were supposed to be.
 
I agree with others that Tesla communications re-defines the worst case scenario. I think the only possible way it could be worse would be if they just called customers up to curse at them.

Funny!

But I can't really imagine Tesla ever cursing at a customer. They seem way too polite and courteous for that.

Here's how I would imagine how it could be worse: if they called up customers, inquired about their current ownership experience, sympathized with any problems, offered their thoughts, and finally said, "I think we have something you'll like... oh, wait... please hold for just ONE second..."

[tick... tock... tick... tock...]

:)
 
And you were doing so well with your arguments right up until this.

The numbers on the EPA stickers on the P85Ds are not the efficiency numbers we are getting. They are, hopefully, the numbers we'll be getting --AFTER-- the torque sleep firmware update that we knew nothing about when our cars were delivered with those window stickers. We found out about the firmware update when the blog post came out on December 31, and then probably only due to the fact that there had been a lot of complaining about why the cars were not as efficient as they were supposed to be.

Oh it was an EPA lie then, oops sorry I thought it was some verbal promise. No wonder it wasn't making sense... should read the whole damn thread again in detail as penance.

There is lots of precedent for EPA fibbing.

Take Tesla to court then, and get a rebate or some compensation for this difference, or get them to buy back the car then wait until they deliver something more acceptable and proven to match its EPA. If I made buying decision on it that's what I'd do.
 
Well - I guess I win as the most pessimistic of all. I converted my P85D to a standard S85 because I didn't believe Tesla will/would/can fix the energy use problem. I knew that after the initial thrill wore off, I'd be frustrated that I was spending $400 a month more on a lease and using more energy to go every mile. But hey those are my priorities.

I love all the arguments that no are gets its EPA. They actually mostly do and I can always beat the EPA - and anyone who has a brain and tries can crush the EPA. But the issue here is that the P85D is significantly worse than the P85 and was said to be the same. Since we aren't talking MPG but we are talking range, it is a crucial problem. Not a $50 a year more in gas issue, a usability issue.

Anyway - the new poll should be not end of January but "Will Tesla ever fix the P85D energy use/range problem?" because that is what missing deadlines does to expectations
 
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