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Will the second row seats fold flat? If so, how?

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The second row of my current Explorer has a (folding) middle seat with integrated seatbelt. My previous Aviator was the same. So I guess this is reasonably common, at least for middle seats. No reason it couldn't be replicated for the outer seats?

The outer seats have pretty beefy hooks and catches that anchor the seats to the frame, so the forces applied have less leverage. In the case of the middle seats (which is the same in the rear of the current Model S) , the lever point to the shoulder exit is much smaller as it runs a shorter distance across the top of the seat to the fixing, rather than the whole height of the seat back to where it is hinged.

Of course there are some captains chairs in MPVs that do have integrated belts and these seats don't clip when in place to the car, but I'd suggest they are flipping heavy with very substantial engineering to deal with the leverage involved with crash forces. It's worth bearing in mind weight is still the enemy in terms of efficiency, and looking around the Model S interior you can see where weight has been shaved wherever possible (doorbins/grab handles/ vanity mirror lighting / cupholders / thin seats / ..... )
 
there is just no way there isn't some type of configuration that creates a flat floor on ALL versions of the X. it was one of the hilights of the original 2012 reveal. everyone chill, we are going to get exactly what we have been promised :cool:

Perhaps the Signature series second row are "premium" seats (that obviously don't fold down) and come standard. Regular production seats might fold however and the premium seats will be an optional upgrade? Either that or Elon and the design team just said "screw it" and all X's will have non-folding, non-removable second row seats. Yes, they will move back and forth, that's a given. How much forward however we will have to wait for the reveal at the end of the month for the answers.
 
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The second row of my current Explorer has a (folding) middle seat with integrated seatbelt. My previous Aviator was the same. So I guess this is reasonably common, at least for middle seats. No reason it couldn't be replicated for the outer seats?

What you are saying is that the second row seat has seating for three, and the middle seat of the three has an integrated seat belt, while the outer two seat belts are connected to the roof frame.

I'm not sure why they are able to do the middle seat and not the outer ones. Maybe because of the total force exerted on the seat being too high to support three bodies? Seems like, if they could have integrated all three seat belts they would have, to get the belts out of the way.
 
Think about this for a second: Tesla may be - like usual - diverging from the mainstream. In some cases, that's going to make some people disappointed and/or angry, and could result in cancellations. In others, it's likely to make others very, very happy. I would hate to see a world where Tesla wouldn't be able to change its approach as it developed the vehicle. It may have found that no supplier was able to build seats they wanted, or that when they polled their customers with the various options, they found that the "cargo van" mode wasn't the highest priority compared with other features.

Case in point: let's compare my 2010 Chevy Traverse with the Model X. In the Traverse we have the second-row bench seat. It is a folding seat in that the bottom cushion pops up against the front row, then the seat back lies flat in the same line as the third-row seats and the deck above the fuel tank (flat cargo load deck). In order to create a flat cargo area, though, vertical room had to be sacrificed - the folding of the second and third row seat backs created a much higher load floor. There is a lot of room left beneath the seats that cannot be used because of the transformation to a flat load floor and all the sliding movement that must be done to accomplish it. When the second row seats are up, nothing can be placed beneath them or under them. A shallow pit above the gas tank but beneath the load floor gives you some storage in the back but it's pretty much worthless except for the flares, emergency gloves, and the random pieces parts to toys that have been lost.

Now, here's how I look at Model X without a folding front row... it gives far greater room when the vehicle is configured for passengers. It's intended for moving people and getting them comfortable! The pedestals give significant room beneath the seats for placing personal items, bags, etc.; things you cannot do with most other CUV/SUV's on the market. The lower floor makes it easier for the taller people to get in and out of the vehicle without cramming their heads. From what I've seen, I think it's going to be a great "soccer mom people mover" with plenty of room of mid-range hauling.

This is at the expense of being able to create a cargo van out of the Model X. Personally, I'm ok with that but I recognize others won't be. Perhaps Tesla found that those who needed conversion to cargo van mode were more willing to buy something cheap and weren't willing to pay the price point it had wanted.
 
Really trying to remain calm, not go nuts and buy a CPO MS or order an MS 90D, at least not before Sept 29. :eek:
So frustrated with lack of information regarding MX features for both Sig and Production reservation holders. :mad:

Trying to find a happy place...

Originally Posted by Yggdrasill
I have to admit your information sounds believable. It might be that the Model X launches with non-folding seats, they keep working on it and then it comes a few months or a year or two down the line. But there's no harm in keeping my reservation a month longer. Maybe the standard seats do fold after all, or maybe the solution for the non-folding seats is sufficiently clever. No way of knowing until more information is available.
 
Even without second row folding seats...which I would like...More likely than not I will buy the vehicle. I will wait to see the reveal. The ONLY absolute deal breaker for me if it needs gas :)
 
I've been thinking this but have been reluctant to say anything. I am holding out for a true reveal, to be clear. However if this is the case, in conjunction with my other thread about door clearances I'm going to be tremendously disappointed in these doors. I'm thankful in this case that my reservation is 8k. I have some time to see the vehicle and the experience of others.

While I agree the doors made the seatbelt anchor location more complex, I think combined with the fact they went with a single pedestal for the seats also made the crash testing very difficult. In a crash the seats can get torqued/sheared off the pedestal. Every other car I can think of either has a bigger base for the seats or a second base (and crossbeam) for the seats to sit on. Sitting on a single small pedestal must be em's reference to "sculptural" and "work of art."
 
If there is a 30%-40% cancellation/deferral of Sig reservations due to lack of folding seats, this could be a significant set-back for Tesla. They would need to move quickly to address this issue. I would speculate that the only thing that they can do today is to eliminate any other seat option to remove that uncertainty in reservation holders, while they look to come up with a longer-term solution (a folding 2nd row). Giving customers a 1 week deadline to force a decision is another option. This may explain why they are up to Sig #604 already. Or, they are just further along than we originally anticipated.
 
If there is a 30%-40% cancellation/deferral of Sig reservations due to lack of folding seats, this could be a significant set-back for Tesla. They would need to move quickly to address this issue. I would speculate that the only thing that they can do today is to eliminate any other seat option to remove that uncertainty in reservation holders, while they look to come up with a longer-term solution (a folding 2nd row). Giving customers a 1 week deadline to force a decision is another option. This may explain why they are up to Sig #604 already. Or, they are just further along than we originally anticipated.
just FYI...I have not been asked to configure. I just talked with my original inside sales person to get the information I supplied up thread
 
If there is a 30%-40% cancellation/deferral of Sig reservations due to lack of folding seats, this could be a significant set-back for Tesla.
Most of the cancellations were months and years ago. According to the Model X tally, signature number 1356 was handed out march 26, 2014, so at that point, there had been 356 cancellations. There are no indications that Tesla is having a problematic cancellation rate.

I think the non-folding seats are less of an issue with Sugnature buyers. Given the experience with the Model S, they knew what they were signing up for.
 
If there is a 30%-40% cancellation/deferral of Sig reservations due to lack of folding seats, this could be a significant set-back for Tesla. They would need to move quickly to address this issue. I would speculate that the only thing that they can do today is to eliminate any other seat option to remove that uncertainty in reservation holders, while they look to come up with a longer-term solution (a folding 2nd row). Giving customers a 1 week deadline to force a decision is another option. This may explain why they are up to Sig #604 already. Or, they are just further along than we originally anticipated.

I'm one of those who doesn't often need the seating capacity, but very often needs the flat cargo area. I'll wait to see what is revealed and what the plans are (if Tesla will tell us, which is unlikely) for the 2nd row seats. If they don't fold and cannot be removed, the car does not meet my needs.

Trying not to panic.
 
Think about this for a second: Tesla may be - like usual - diverging from the mainstream.
...
Now, here's how I look at Model X without a folding front row... it gives far greater room when the vehicle is configured for passengers. It's intended for moving people and getting them comfortable!

I would buy this argument if they hadn't sent an email just last year outlining the fact that the 2nd row would fold flat. It was an important feature to them; they noted it in the introduction event ("What would you do with all this space") and in the email which is attached upthread. If in fact there's not a fold-flat second row, it's most likely due to another challenge, engineering or otherwise. I have a hard time believing they were on the path to fold flat/space, that they include that functionality in the MS, but abandon it just to make a roomy passenger experience.
 
Sometimes things change. And Tesla is well known for its communications strengths + cough+. I wouldn't be surprised if they had to make a cargo vs passenger trade-off, and they made a conscious decision about which target segment they'd have to be concerned with. Could have been up to a month ago.

As for timing (last year), I can understand how it would frustrate people who thought they were going that direction but it could be that no seat supplier would/could build what they were considering... not making excuses but recognizing the reality of design.
 
Elon did mention that the second row seats were a challenge. I took that as to make them safe for crashing and able to turn either 90 or 180 degrees. Maybe it was to *try* to make them all those things and foldable. I agree with Ohhman. Seems like there had to be a compromise somewhere and it ends up being 'folding' as all along it was indicated that they would fold to create a large flat cargo area.
 
The fold flat second row wouldn't be a deal killer for me, but it would be a solid disappointment. It would also sting when showing the car to people, because I know it would come up. "Oh, it doesn't work that way." The only reason I care about that is because I love showing the overwhelming functionality of the MS in that it showcases what a vehicle can and should be. It changes people's minds. I would hope that the MX could do the same.

What will be a deal killer for me is the FW door clearance and my garage. The more I look at how this works, the more worried I become.
 
The U in SUV/CUV is the utility that the vehicle provides. Elon said this was the best SUV ever...even a better SUV than the Model S is a sedan. In order for that to be true, the second (and third) rows must fold down. If they don't fold, then the vehicle is just a people mover and won't be good for moving bulky cargo, shuttling the dogs around, etc. I think that the vast majority of buyers would expect the seats to fold down as even minivans provide this basic functionality. If it's just a people mover and not a true CUV/SUV, then I'll be cancelling my order. For the same $$$, I could conceivably get the new Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV and a CPO or inventory Model S. I was hoping this one vehicle could cover all of my needs. I guess we'll know for sure by on September 29th!