Will the second row seats fold flat? If so, how?

[vandacca]

If there is a 30%-40% cancellation/deferral of Sig reservations due to lack of folding seats, this could be a significant set-back for Tesla. They would need to move quickly to address this issue. I would speculate that the only thing that they can do today is to eliminate any other seat option to remove that uncertainty in reservation holders, while they look to come up with a longer-term solution (a folding 2nd row). Giving customers a 1 week deadline to force a decision is another option. This may explain why they are up to Sig #604 already. Or, they are just further along than we originally anticipated.

Looks like something has changed on the ModelX Tracker website. It is no longer saying Sig #604 as the most recent to configure, but rather Sig #139 (#171 if you go to the Order Activity page). Either that, or I somehow made a mistake the last time I looked at it.

 

[AlMc]

With all the angst over the seats I have to wonder if Elon will telegraph something on Colbert about them....probably not..,.but would be nice

 

[MorrisonHiker]

This is a crazy idea, and I am sure many of you will tell me so, but......with huge side doors is it possible that the second row could be removed?

I would think that might be possible but I don't think that's what many of us where hoping for when we made our reservations. The ability to instantly fold seats flat is what makes my current vehicle so useful. If I'm out shopping and decide to buy a large item, I can instantly accommodate it. Having to remove the seats in advance is an inconvenience that would surely change many minds.

 

[BerTX]

I would think that might be possible but I don't think that's what many of us where hoping for when we made our reservations. The ability to instantly fold seats flat is what makes my current vehicle so useful. If I'm out shopping and decide to buy a large item, I can instantly accommodate it. Having to remove the seats in advance is an inconvenience that would surely change many minds.

I agree, but for my use, having the option for not having the seats in the way would at least make buying the MX possible. If they don't fold and can't be removed, it simply would not be a vehicle I could live with.

I have doubts that Tesla will facilitate removal of the seats, if the reason for not making them non-folding is for strength in a crash. Likely the mechanism will be permanently installed and not removable, even with ordinary tools. They would have to maintain the structural integrity.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Think about this for a second: Tesla may be - like usual - diverging from the mainstream. ... Now, here's how I look at Model X without a folding front row... it gives far greater room when the vehicle is configured for passengers. It's intended for moving people and getting them comfortable! The pedestals give significant room beneath the seats for placing personal items, bags, etc.; things you cannot do with most other CUV/SUV's on the market. The lower floor makes it easier for the taller people to get in and out of the vehicle without cramming their heads. From what I've seen, I think it's going to be a great "soccer mom people mover" with plenty of room of mid-range hauling.

This is at the expense of being able to create a cargo van out of the Model X. Personally, I'm ok with that but I recognize others won't be. Perhaps Tesla found that those who needed conversion to cargo van mode were more willing to buy something cheap and weren't willing to pay the price point it had wanted.

If the Model X actually has LESS big cargo storage than the Model S, then this is a mistake. Since you can fit a full size bike in the Model S, you'd think you could do the same in the Model X. No doubt Tesla will try to mitigate this by saying there is actually more room when you consider space under the seats, etc. But that's beside the point. Most families have that SUV or minivan in the household not JUST for transporting 6 kids, but also for buying that 70" TV, or fitting in an IKEA piece of furniture.

 

[Paul Carter]

Looks like something has changed on the ModelX Tracker website. It is no longer saying Sig #604 as the most recent to configure, but rather Sig #139 (#171 if you go to the Order Activity page). Either that, or I somehow made a mistake the last time I looked at it.

You might have mixed it up with the news flash about an email that went out which was about preparing not configuring.

USA Signature reservation holders (one up to 604) have received an email from Tesla. "PREPARE FOR YOUR MODEL X DELIVERY"!...

 

[AlMc]

You might have mixed it up with the news flash about an email that went out which was about preparing not configuring.

I am 604 and while I have spoken to NASales a couple times in the last few days I have not been asked to configure. Since I have already asked a bunch of questions they might skip me :biggrin:

 

[NigelM]

You might have mixed it up with the news flash about an email that went out which was about preparing not configuring.

#313, no e-mail for preparing (let alone delivering) received here.

 

[trils0n]

The U in SUV/CUV is the utility that the vehicle provides. Elon said this was the best SUV ever...even a better SUV than the Model S is a sedan. In order for that to be true, the second (and third) rows must fold down. If they don't fold, then the vehicle is just a people mover and won't be good for moving bulky cargo, shuttling the dogs around, etc. I think that the vast majority of buyers would expect the seats to fold down as even minivans provide this basic functionality. If it's just a people mover and not a true CUV/SUV, then I'll be cancelling my order. For the same $$$, I could conceivably get the new Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV and a CPO or inventory Model S. I was hoping this one vehicle could cover all of my needs. I guess we'll know for sure by on September 29th!

I don't think Elon considers the folding of the second row seats a needed utility for an SUV. He was asked this question about the seats folding flat in an interview or conference call and said something dismissive to the effect of: "2nd row folding flat would make the Model X a really expensive cargo van".

 

[AnOutsider]

I don't think Elon considers the folding of the second row seats a needed utility for an SUV. He was asked this question about the seats folding flat in an interview or conference call and said something dismissive to the effect of: "2nd row folding flat would make the Model X a really expensive cargo van".

Steve jobs also snarkily dismissed MMS.

 

[BornToFly]

I don't think Elon considers the folding of the second row seats a needed utility for an SUV. He was asked this question about the seats folding flat in an interview or conference call and said something dismissive to the effect of: "2nd row folding flat would make the Model X a really expensive cargo van".

Aren't future EV cargo vans and pickup trucks part of the dream....

 

[anticitizen13.7]

I don't think Elon considers the folding of the second row seats a needed utility for an SUV. He was asked this question about the seats folding flat in an interview or conference call and said something dismissive to the effect of: "2nd row folding flat would make the Model X a really expensive cargo van".

Ugh. Because I know many people who use their SUV to pick up unwieldy cargo several times each year.

 

[hpham007]

I don't think Elon considers the folding of the second row seats a needed utility for an SUV. He was asked this question about the seats folding flat in an interview or conference call and said something dismissive to the effect of: "2nd row folding flat would make the Model X a really expensive cargo van".

If he really said this, I think he may be far out of touch with the general public and their needs. Placing priority on the falcon doors (while they do look cool but has questionable utility) over folding seats is a colossal mistake. When Fisker put solar panels on the roof and the glass pane in his car to make the batteries visible, I thought that was a clear indication of why designers should stay far away on the technical engineering aspects of car design. If the seats really do not fold down, Musk needs to step away from car design and hand it over to people that know what they are doing.

 

[EQC_]

I don't think Elon considers the folding of the second row seats a needed utility for an SUV. He was asked this question about the seats folding flat in an interview or conference call and said something dismissive to the effect of: "2nd row folding flat would make the Model X a really expensive cargo van".

I believe you are remembering incorrectly...IIRC, the question was about seats being entirely removable for a flat load floor. On that line of thinking, the (motor?) platfom under the third row in the X would mean a completely flat floor doesn't exist in the X anyway.

As some have guessed, I think it is plausible that there will be two seat options -- base version that can fold, and optional (signature) version with other fancy features but no folding. The original X presentation did show folding seats, so hopefully that has not been killed.

In my head, I'm thinking Suburban vs Escalade -- I imagine there is a higher fraction of Suburban owners who regularly fold seats and transport big stuff, and I imagine that activity is less common in an optioned-up, full leather Escalade. Fancy seats for people only....less fancy seats for people and/or cargo.

 

[trils0n]

I believe you are remembering incorrectly...IIRC, the question was about seats being entirely removable for a flat load floor. On that line of thinking, the (motor?) platfom under the third row in the X would mean a completely flat floor doesn't exist in the X anyway.

As some have guessed, I think it is plausible that there will be two seat options -- base version that can fold, and optional (signature) version with other fancy features but no folding. The original X presentation did show folding seats, so hopefully that has not been killed.

In my head, I'm thinking Suburban vs Escalade -- I imagine there is a higher fraction of Suburban owners who regularly fold seats and transport big stuff, and I imagine that activity is less common in an optioned-up, full leather Escalade. Fancy seats for people only....less fancy seats for people and/or cargo.

I hope I'm remembering incorrectly. I can't find the source again. Do you remember where he talked about this? Just concerns me because at Tesla, it seems it is Elon's way or the highway, and I think he's making a mistake with non-folding second row.

 

[FlasherZ]

If he really said this, I think he may be far out of touch with the general public and their needs. Placing priority on the falcon doors (while they do look cool but has questionable utility) over folding seats is a colossal mistake. When Fisker put solar panels on the roof and the glass pane in his car to make the batteries visible, I thought that was a clear indication of why designers should stay far away on the technical engineering aspects of car design. If the seats really do not fold down, Musk needs to step away from car design and hand it over to people that know what they are doing.

I'd say he's been quite successful already with what he has done. And I'm sure he has a team that has looked at whether it was more appropriate to accommodate passengers vs. cargo and made the tough decision if they couldn't meet their original objective.

 

[Cosmacelf]

I don't think Elon considers the folding of the second row seats a needed utility for an SUV. He was asked this question about the seats folding flat in an interview or conference call and said something dismissive to the effect of: "2nd row folding flat would make the Model X a really expensive cargo van".

If you can find that interview, that would be great - pretty sure it wasn't a conference call.

 

[dirkhh]

If he really said this, I think he may be far out of touch with the general public and their needs. Placing priority on the falcon doors (while they do look cool but has questionable utility) over folding seats is a colossal mistake.

+1000
I think the falcon doors and the warped windshield and the other gimmicks are the main reason for the massive delay of the car. Things that people may say "umm, cool" about, but which no one really needs. But cargo space, heck yes, that's the only reason why we had been considering a Model X. We need one big spaceous car. If the Model X can't deliver than we'll have to buy another ICE.
And no, I don't want to drive an ICE, but I need a car in which I can move the kids and the dogs and stuff. If Tesla doesn't understand that that's the appeal of an SUV then I think they are in for a huge surprise with the number of cancelations they'll see.

 

[ohmman]

If you can find that interview, that would be great - pretty sure it wasn't a conference call.

I just looked around for it myself and couldn't seem to locate any text of it. I did run across him saying that when the falcon wing doors open, you would say "wow" about the second row seats. Has anyone said "wow" based on the photos from the configuration page? So perhaps there still is something else going on with those.

 

[Krugerrand]

If he really said this, I think he may be far out of touch with the general public and their needs.

I'm not arguing that folding seats aren't practical and useable for people, but I will argue your view that the 'general public' needs/owns a 100k+ SUV. The 'general public' owns a van (if they have kids) or pick up truck for those kinds of cargo needs.

More accurately your statement should be a 'segment' of the premium SUV market needs folding seats for their cargo hauling needs. :wink: