Will the second row seats fold flat? If so, how?

[mikes_fsd]

I have similar concerns - 2 little kids, travel a lot with the whole family!
But I do want to put a different perspective... a double stroller for instance was only useful for about 6 months, then the older refused to EVER be in the stroller (diff story if you have twins or Irish twins ).

I find it ironic that you are posting this particular post in a topic that would NEVER allow for a family of 5 to travel in the Model X!
There is NO way you can have 2nd row flat folding and still make your trip w/ 5 people on one car - with ANY comparable SUV/CUV.

Given all the new info that Nigel has dug up for us, New Frunk info (9/15) New renderings of storage space and 2nd row seats! (9/15) , I am certain we do not know enough about the details of the final product.

Also, find it quite funny that you post a concept car that "Tesla has to be concerned about the coming competition"... Even if Audi makes their 2018 deadline, it gives 3 FULL years of Tesla tweaking/refining the Model X design on PRODUCTION cars.

But my last point -- many people have waited 3+ years... we really can wait the last 13 days to get the final details from the horses mouth?

Obviously, I am a loyal Tesla owner, but after these realizations/discoveries on the X, I have concerns that the Model X will not join my S (and likely our III) in the garage.

My comments:

1) Many folks have stated rooftop storage is irrelevant. If you have a family of 5, and want to take a trip that includes luggage for 7 days, double strollers, and other kid-gear, it is very relevant. I am still waiting clarification on the frunk capacity, but given the tear-drop of the rear hatch, I do not think internal storage will cover our needs. Yes, going to the grocery store will not require this storage (I get that), but our seven-eight trips a year to Los Angeles certainly will. This may not be a requirement for in-town driving, I get that... but for an SUV, I would imagine it is more of a desire than the folks downplaying it might understand.

2) The lack of folding second row seats is another obvious concern. I guess I am just surprised given the extreme delay is shipping the car, I personally do not understand this oversight. It was shown in the reveal of the prototype years ago.

3) Besides some cool headlights, doesn't seem to have advanced all that much vs. current Model S. This could be wrong, but I am starting to doubt the "big holdback" and "double top secret blow-away" features that folks have been speaking of. Maybe I am wrong... will know soon. I get that this car is still light-years beyond traditional ICE machines in technology, but.....the game is changing.

WRT to the game changing: Forget my immediate needs/desires/requirements for a minute... Tesla has to be concerned about the coming competition in the EV marketplace. Audi just revealed their 270-300 mile EV SUV for 2018 (which isn't too far away.) Who else is coming? Will they enable basics like rooftop storage and fold down seats? I know, the Audi is only 2 rows of seating...but will the next one be? Tesla needs to compete not with ICE, but with the German EVs that are looking to be more than token compliance cars this generation.

Here is the Audi reveal from yesterday: Audi E-Tron Concept - 2015 Frankfurt Motor Show - YouTube

 

[WestCoastP85D]

Thanks for the post. Tesla still has 2016, 2017 without much competition... and model year 2018 will likely have production constraints on competitive offerings (i.e.: they will not have a gigafactory), but the competitive landscape will be very different with the German invasion.

Here's a better link (that demonstrates aerodynamics, interior, navigation and autopilot features) for the Audi E-Tron Concept. Car looks very much like a concept car therefore it's unlikely it'll be ready by 2018.

 

[smac]

Here is the Audi reveal from yesterday: Audi E-Tron Concept - 2015 Frankfurt Motor Show - YouTube

I have to say if Audi come good with that I'll be at the front of the queue. (Sorry I know this is a Tesla forum, but to me that looks stunning.)

 

[WestCoastP85D]

Wow. Your point about the road trip and the point about the folding second row were two different categories of concerns for MY purchase decision. Please read my post with intent to understand, not intent to downplay or negate. I am not Tesla's problem, instead a proponent and current customer.

WRT to the double stroller comments, and your suggesting that my requirements are not realistic, your world is just different than mine. I didn't say everyone would have these concerns, I said I have these concerns and I believe some others will too. This car would replace our GL450, which has no issue serving these needs.

I hope you are right on the Frunk space and other reveals... of course, I am waiting for the end of the month like everyone else.

I have similar concerns - 2 little kids, travel a lot with the whole family!
But I do want to put a different perspective... a double stroller for instance was only useful for about 6 months, then the older refused to EVER be in the stroller (diff story if you have twins or Irish twins ).

I find it ironic that you are posting this particular post in a topic that would NEVER allow for a family of 5 to travel in the Model X!
There is NO way you can have 2nd row flat folding and still make your trip w/ 5 people on one car - with ANY comparable SUV/CUV.

Given all the new info that Nigel has dug up for us, New Frunk info (9/15) New renderings of storage space and 2nd row seats! (9/15) , I am certain we do not know enough about the details of the final product.

Also, find it quite funny that you post a concept car that "Tesla has to be concerned about the coming competition"... Even if Audi makes their 2018 deadline, it gives 3 FULL years of Tesla tweaking/refining the Model X design on PRODUCTION cars.

But my last point -- many people have waited 3+ years... we really can wait the last 13 days to get the final details from the horses mouth?

- - - Updated - - -

Yep. The point is: Tesla will have real competition in 3 years, which is not far in automotive-time. The III cannot be years late...we will likely order one on reveal in March. The compromises on the X (while less of a concern in 2013) are more of a concern in an environment with Audi/Merc/BMW true alternatives that offer more utility/capacity/fit/finish/etc. After the X full reveal, my family will make the call if we personally will go for an X, but it doesn't look like it right now. Translation: It means that a german EV alternative may join our fleet in 2018.

Not saying this is the case for everyone. I hope they sell a lot of them.

I have to say if Audi come good with that I'll be at the front of the queue. (Sorry I know this is a Tesla forum, but to me that looks stunning.)

 

[AnOutsider]

But my last point -- many people have waited 3+ years... we really can wait the last 13 days to get the final details from the horses mouth?

Sadly, not in every case. I guess I misunderstood what I was told by 2 people on the phone (and to be fair, Tesla was apologetic when I discussed it with them mere hours later) that sig folks could use the information on 9/29 to decide if they wanted to move forward or not. With that knowledge in hand, I configured, but the actual situation is that I have until a week after I configured to decide to cancel or not. Friday is D-Day in my case.

 

[palmer_md]

Sadly, not in every case. I guess I misunderstood what I was told by 2 people on the phone (and to be fair, Tesla was apologetic when I discussed it with them mere hours later) that sig folks could use the information on 9/29 to decide if they wanted to move forward or not. With that knowledge in hand, I configured, but the actual situation is that I have until a week after I configured to decide to cancel or not. Friday is D-Day in my case.

That is pretty bad if they don't allow everyone at least 24 hours after the presentation on the 29th to make their decision. How are you supposed to commit before they present you with the details of what you are purchasing.

 

[NigelM]

Sadly, not in every case. I guess I misunderstood what I was told by 2 people on the phone (and to be fair, Tesla was apologetic when I discussed it with them mere hours later) that sig folks could use the information on 9/29 to decide if they wanted to move forward or not. With that knowledge in hand, I configured, but the actual situation is that I have until a week after I configured to decide to cancel or not. Friday is D-Day in my case.

That's largely the reason I'm holding off ordering, despite the invitation to configure. I need to know that the car meets our needs and so (at least) some specs need to be communicated before I hit that button.

 

[AnOutsider]

That is pretty bad if they don't allow everyone at least 24 hours after the presentation on the 29th to make their decision. How are you supposed to commit before they present you with the details of what you are purchasing.

Because Tesla.

 

[jesselivenomore]

Translation: It means that a german EV alternative may join our fleet in 2018.

That's fine. But if the model x's storage space for family road trips is the sticking point for you, how is it that you intend on taking road trips at all in this german EV alternative with a presumed 300 mile range and no supercharger network?

 

[mrdoubleb]

That is pretty bad if they don't allow everyone at least 24 hours after the presentation on the 29th to make their decision. How are you supposed to commit before they present you with the details of what you are purchasing.

So with all due respect, fully acknowledging that I do not have 140k in this game... no one forced anyone to reserve a Sig. Sig holders always knew they are first in line but that means they get a fully loaded car largely pre-configured. Even so, they all have the option to postpone configuration after 9/29, they just have to let Tesla know they want to convert their Sig to a Prod car, right?

 

[bonnie]

So with all due respect, fully acknowledging that I do not have 140k in this game... no one forced anyone to reserve a Sig. Sig holders always knew they are first in line but that means they get a fully loaded car largely pre-configured. Even so, they all have the option to postpone configuration after 9/29, they just have to let Tesla know they want to convert their Sig to a Prod car, right?

With all due respect, at the time of making a signature reservation, there was no requirement to agree that you'd buy without key specifications being disclosed. If people are asking for more info, they should be allowed to wait until the 29th without losing their spot in line.

 

[AnOutsider]

So with all due respect, fully acknowledging that I do not have 140k in this game... no one forced anyone to reserve a Sig. Sig holders always knew they are first in line but that means they get a fully loaded car largely pre-configured. Even so, they all have the option to postpone configuration after 9/29, they just have to let Tesla know they want to convert their Sig to a Prod car, right?

Honestly a bit tired of hearing this (has a note of "you poor dumb idiots"). There was no reason for sigs to think performance would be forced on us when we plunked down a deposit (wasn't for Model S). There was no reason to think that the storage space (created by flat-folding seats) that was touted during the unveiling wouldn't be available. There was no reason to think we wouldn't have the information we needed to make an informed decision at the time of configuration either.

So, maybe a bit dumb... For believing Tesla wouldn't put us in a situation like this.

 

[ohmman]

Sadly, not in every case. I guess I misunderstood what I was told by 2 people on the phone (and to be fair, Tesla was apologetic when I discussed it with them mere hours later) that sig folks could use the information on 9/29 to decide if they wanted to move forward or not. With that knowledge in hand, I configured, but the actual situation is that I have until a week after I configured to decide to cancel or not. Friday is D-Day in my case.

Keep us updated, they most certainly should make this right for you..

 

[AnOutsider]

Mod Note: A post regarding the Q6 e-tron was moved here.

 

[dirkhh]

I want to see a queen-sized bed in the back of the X.

I am asking for something that is comparable to what Tesla told us to expect. Is that unreasonable? By rephrasing my request as "I want to see a queen-sized bed" you paint me as silly, petty and unreasonable. Even with the smiley I find that disappointing, bonnie.

 

[bonnie]

I am asking for something that is comparable to what Tesla told us to expect. Is that unreasonable? By rephrasing my request as "I want to see a queen-sized bed" you paint me as silly, petty and unreasonable. Even with the smiley I find that disappointing, bonnie.

Whoa! NO! I was referring to Elon's statement at launch that it would be big enough to almost fit a queen size bed. And THAT is what I want to see.

I loved your side-by-side comparison. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[dirkhh]

Honestly a bit tired of hearing this (has a note of "you poor dumb idiots"). There was no reason for sigs to think performance would be forced on us when we plunked down a deposit (wasn't for Model S). There was no reason to think that the storage space (created by flat-folding seats) that was touted during the unveiling wouldn't be available. There was no reason to think we wouldn't have the information we needed to make an informed decision at the time of configuration either.

So, maybe a bit dumb... For believing Tesla wouldn't put us in a situation like this.

AnOutsider: I am also surprised at the amount of vitriol and derision poured over reservation holders who express disappointment when they compare the reasonable expectations created by Tesla with what we know now will be available for purchase.
I don't envy you the tough decision later this week.

 

[WestCoastP85D]

We will learn the details on both fronts in due course.

That's fine. But if the model x's storage space for family road trips is the sticking point for you, how is it that you intend on taking road trips at all in this german EV alternative with a presumed 300 mile range and no supercharger network?

 

[smac]

Please send your resume to TM...They...I mean WE need you.:wink:

lol... I'm not sure they have a position for "VP of stating the obvious"

 

[aesculus]

lol... I'm not sure they have a position for "VP of stating the obvious"

Actually I think that is the definition of a VP along with stating the party line. :wink: