Winter Driving Experiences

[jerry33]

Possibly this is nonsense but this idea occurred to me after reading this:
My impression (still not having driven in snow with the S) is that when set correctly, regen breaking will be similar to downshifting in a standard - which is good as long as it isn't like dropping into first from fourth and popping the clutch That being true, it seems that if the regen breaking had more levels than just standard and low - maybe 4 or five settings that could be bumped up or down, and one could assign this to a steering wheel control then it would have the effect of downshifting, gradually adding more resistance as required.

No need for that complexity because you can easily control the exact amount of regen with your foot. Regen is not a switch (on/off) it's just like acceleration only you stop rather than go.

 

[InTheShadows]

This suggests another idea: Similar to being able to save Drive Profiles which presumably don't include things like regen mode, steering, suspension height etc. Maybe the car could support customizable driving modes. This would allow a set of appropriate software controlled options to be saved under a named "mode". The user can then have a variety of different modes according to weather, road type, fun level or whatever. Possibly there aren't enough options to make this useful yet but conceivably you could include all manner of options including roof opening or whatever. I see this as different than Driving profiles as that is more about adjusting the cockpit to the driver as opposed to adjusting the car to the environment.

I just emailed ownership about some of this today. We have so many great ideas and the responses I have gotten from ownership lead me to believe that they are listening to us. I hope so because there are so many great ideas that are generated here.

Please send your ideas to them too. Just imagine the greatest car getting even more awesome.

 

[gpetti]

No need for that complexity because you can easily control the exact amount of regen with your foot. Regen is not a switch (on/off) it's just like acceleration only you stop rather than go.

I was simply going by the fact that some people seemed to find the regen too aggressive in the standard mode. Currently there are only two modes, Standard and Low so I was referring to having more of these settings. It sounds like this would be overkill so I'll reserve any more comment on this idea until I'm actually driving a model S on the mean winter streets of Calgary Canada.

 

[znino]

So I took my P85 for a spin through the Sierra Nevada last weekend to see how the car with 21" summer tires would respond to snow. It was a scary experience. Down hill on snow, the car was almost uncontrolable with regen breaks on.
Basically the power of the regen breaks will cause the car to slide, which then triggers ABS & Co. to kick in trying to stabalize the car so you have different systems fighting each other. Despite being from the land Down Under I am an experienced driver on snow and I never had anything like that. Turning the regen to low helped significantly to control the car, I wish there would be a snow/ice setting for the anti lock breaks.
Other than that, easily over 600W/mi heading into the mountain with a pre-warmed battery from home.

Last winter I quickly discovered that setting Regen to Low any time the roads are icy or snowy is the best way to go.

 

[Aussie]

The problem here was the tires, not the vehicle control systems. Even the best systems can't beat physics. Summer performance tires and snow are just plain dangerous regardless of prior experience.

Yes, the tires are definately the problem. However the dangerous part is the regen breaking which makes the car difficult to control in snow. Switching it off makes the car behave a lot better.

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Last winter I quickly discovered that setting Regen to Low any time the roads are icy or snowy is the best way to go.

Agree, this is definately the case. As other have said, you can of course control the level of decellaration with your right foot. But I guess I will need to practice more that when going downhill I need to accelerate to get better control over the car.

 

[InTheShadows]

Yes, the tires are definately the problem. However the dangerous part is the regen breaking which makes the car difficult to control in snow. Switching it off makes the car behave a lot better.

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Agree, this is definately the case. As other have said, you can of course control the level of decellaration with your right foot. But I guess I will need to practice more that when going downhill I need to accelerate to get better control over the car.

The problem with high regen in winter driving is emergency reactions. The reaction is always to yank your foot off the accelerator and/or stab the brakes, putting you into a rear skid.

If you are used to driving a manual it could happen there too but experienced manual drivers stab the clutch at the same time to prevent this from happening. You don't have that option with the Model S unless you can get good at doing a half click of the drive lever to pop it into neutral, which likely would be difficult because you would probably be giving steering input too.

 

[jkirkebo]

Last thing to potentially tweak would be suspension height.

I'm right with you, even at 40 miles an hour my winter tires slip if I floor it. I've taken a few people for a ride since swapping my tires, and they still are amazed at the acceleration, but I can barely run at half throttle before I lose traction.

40mhp? My Hakka R2s lose traction even on dry roads if I floor it at 85mph...

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Blizzak... Done! Bring on the snow and ice

I went a step further

Hakka R2s with german quality chains (RUD-matic Disc).

 

[Cottonwood]

Hakka R2s with german quality chains (RUD-matic Disc).

That looks like a great setup. Yet another reason to have v5.8 with a little more clearance.

1. Which version of the RUDmatic chains did you get; looks like the classic?
2. How many times have you used them?
3. Any clearance problems?
4. Performance?
5. Are they as easy to put on as their video suggests?

There is a U.S. supplier: RUD - Passenger cars / SUV's / vans. I will give them a call on Monday.

 

[gpetti]

I just emailed ownership about some of this today. We have so many great ideas and the responses I have gotten from ownership lead me to believe that they are listening to us. I hope so because there are so many great ideas that are generated here.

Please send your ideas to them too. Just imagine the greatest car getting even more awesome.

Thanks, as I'm not a real owner yet, I might stick to floating ideas on here though maybe I should wait until I'm actually driving one. After reading the owner's manual I realize that the driver's profile actually allows most if not all of the pertinent settings to be saved so presumably people can have profiles like Bob_winter etc. I still think separating the driving "mode" from the driver profile makes sense though. A bit like cars that have snow mode, sports mode,econo mode etc. except they can be customized by the owner.

 

[J in MN]

Yes, the tires are definately the problem. However the dangerous part is the regen breaking which makes the car difficult to control in snow. Switching it off makes the car behave a lot better

I keep on seeing people say this, but no matter how hard I try to reproduce this result, I can not. I use standard regen only, and it reacts immediately and imperceptibly to prevent any rear wheel slip, not matter how smoothly polished the ice.

 

[jkirkebo]

That looks like a great setup. Yet another reason to have v5.8 with a little more clearance.

1. Which version of the RUDmatic chains did you get; looks like the classic?
2. How many times have you used them?
3. Any clearance problems?
4. Performance?
5. Are they as easy to put on as their video suggests?

1. Not the classic, it's the RUD-matic Disc.
RUD matic Disc 4716660 Sonderkette BMW

2. Just once for now, to test them.

3. None at all.

4. Very good, as expected. I had these on my previous car too.

5. I use about 3-4 minutes to put them on, and a minute to after-tighten after a few hundred meters of driving.

 

[Aussie]

The problem with high regen in winter driving is emergency reactions. The reaction is always to yank your foot off the accelerator and/or stab the brakes, putting you into a rear skid.

If you are used to driving a manual it could happen there too but experienced manual drivers stab the clutch at the same time to prevent this from happening. You don't have that option with the Model S unless you can get good at doing a half click of the drive lever to pop it into neutral, which likely would be difficult because you would probably be giving steering input too.

Very good point I haven't thought about this. I am used to manual cars and only drive automatic in rental cars or when I visit my dad.

 

[Kalud]

I keep on seeing people say this, but no matter how hard I try to reproduce this result, I can not. I use standard regen only, and it reacts immediately and imperceptibly to prevent any rear wheel slip, not matter how smoothly polished the ice.

I agree with you, I drive with standard regen all the time. Deep snow or ice. I don't release the GO pedal rapidly normally like you wouldn't press the brake pedal hard in those condition. But even if you do release the GO pedal rapidly then the traction control and stability control react instantly. I really don't see an issue here.

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Winter pic (after 60km driving in deep snow)

 

[Forty Creek]

Something about the aerodynamics of the S..... it seems to suck back dust, salt and snow onto its backside. How's was that HD camera working for you this morning?

 

[znino]

Something about the aerodynamics of the S..... it seems to suck back dust, salt and snow onto its backside. How's was that HD camera working for you this morning?

My camera was totally obscured by the snow that came onto it from driving in a medium snowfall. It was fine when I left so clearly the aerodynamics is the culprit in this case and the rear was completely covered in snow. Looked identical to Kalud's picture

 

[Mario Kadastik]

Yeah, that camera becomes useless in about 500m of snow driving really could use rear cam heater

 

[InTheShadows]

So the camera should get some heat tape and a squirter for windshield washer fluid.

Heat tape could come on with the rear window defroster.

 

[Doug_G]

View attachment 38142

I could post an identical picture...

 

[Mayhemm]

This is not unique to Model S.

Our RX Hybrid looks much the same after driving on a snow-covered highway.

Hardly the most aerodynamic vehicle...

 

[dj905]

Similar picture of my Volt from last night...