Winter Driving Experiences

[Denarius]

Hello,

I just returned from a one day winter driving course in the swiss mountains. It was snowing in the morning and raining in the afternoon. So we had all kinda fresh snow and slippery. As this is my first driving course ever I'm probably far from an expert driver and I did learn a lot today. This event was excellent to see how the Model S performes compared to other cars. Unfortunately it was quiet sobering. I drive a standard 85 with 19' Pirelli winter tyres with about 1000km on it and they still look like new.

The first excercise was a slalom course, with the traction control it did handle well and without it, it was fun to drive, even thou it's quiet hard to dose the accelration. Also the stabaliser did work a lot while having the traction controll off.

after that we tried to start uphill with the car, wich was impossible with the Model S. Even when it wasn't uphill, just some snow in front of the tires from braking it was hard to get away. I had to be pushed by people 3 times that day, and there was only one other car that needed that and only one time it was because I ended up in a bit deeper snow.

After that we did full brakes a bit downhill around 60 km/h, the Model S needed the most distance to stop from all the cars by about 10m. We also did some manuvering while braking. The ABS system worked flawlessly and I could avoid the excercise object with about the same speed as the other cars.

In the afternoon we had drove through a corse with tight corners. It had 3 Startpoints so we could drive on it with 3 cars at the same time and see who's back first after 2 rounds. Here I got 2 times the 3rd place. While my driving skill probably did matter most in this excersice we also did drive a few rounds with the 2 winners. A skoda oktavia and a BMW (no clue wich one ^^) both with 4x4 and the acceleration and grip on the snow was really something different.

After that we drove through a more street like roundcourse for maybe 15km. Like at the slalom it was fun to drive without the traction control but in the end I didn't really got the hang of dosing the accelerater good enough to really drift nicely and accerlerate good and the car broke out a lot. So I was alot faster and of corse more stable drive with the traction control on.

In the very end we tried to drive kinda fast backwards and make a 180° turn and drive away immediately. I didn't really got the front gear in while breaking and sliding around, it was most likely my missing skill, but maybe the electronics prevented that somehow, no idea.

You can say I suck at driving, that other winter tyres are better but like I said my experiences where sobering. So keep in mind we drive a heavy car wich does have some disadvantes. So drive carefully and don't get overconfident.

Great experience. Like you said, the Pirelli winter tires are designed for cold dry roads, not snow. I've been able to get started on a 14% grade in the slipperiest conditions (ice with snow on top) with my Michelin XICE xi3 tires. The car would have performed much better with better snow tires.

Regardless, now you know the limits of your vehicle with those tires, you will be a much safer winter driver!

 

[Ven Rala]

I think some other had posted this problem earlier in this thread, but my windows were frozen closed after the recent east coast winter storm. Normally this would not be a problem, except with frameless windows, I had trouble opening then closing my doors. I have seen other suggest starting climate before getting in the car, but I actually drove for 45 minutes and my driver side window would still only open just enough to open the door but not enough to open further than that. Any other suggestions for this problem?

Also I drove from DC to NJ the other night and normally I only need to charge to about 160 miles (rated) at the Delaware supercharger to easily get the 130 miles to my in-laws place in NJ, but after driving more than halfway it became clear that we would probably be about 5-10 miles short, so I made an emergency stop over at the Short Hills Tesla store chargers. Of course it was 0-12 degrees F during my drive, but I did not expect to lose that much energy but I guess the colder it gets, especially under freezing, it really sucks up the kwh. (BTW, I was driving with range mode, 55-65mph and even really turned down the heat to 65 degrees).

 

[crazybrit]

For those of you planning trips in cold weather or at high altitude, please try our new (not-yet-published) version of EVTripPlanner as it compensates better for those things. Let us know how accurate it is for your trips. Thanks - and enjoy!

Cold weather/altitude-adjusted planner: http://evtripplanner.com/planner/carview_beta2
Reference sheets & calculations (PDF and XLS): http://evtripplanner.com/calcs.php

We have thousands of users each week now...think Tesla will integrate energy planning into Nav soon????

This is a great tool. Thank you for developing it. I am finding that if the battery is warm, the beta seems about right. I have some suggestions though:

1. Could you add a field in the advanced for windspeed and direction? It is easy to get a forecast for that, and I would think that you could calculate the vector for each leg of the journey.
2. Are you accounting for the energy required to accelerate and decelerate at each turn?
3. It would be nice to be able to select a different route. I tried doing that by adding way-points, but it is tough to find a way-point in the middle of a freeway!
4. Finally, it would be nice to be able to be able to factor in some battery warming period. It is almost impossible to start with a warm battery, and this has a huge short term effect on energy consumption.

Keep up the good work!

 

[SamGarber]

Agreed. I have always put Blizzaks on my vehicles during the winter months (even the AWD Audis) and found them great in the snow. Blizzaks don't come in 21" so I have SottoZero3's
(Yea, Pirellis..but no choice if you want 21's now) and have been surprised at how well the car handled in snow. My wife refuses to drive in the snow without AWD (poor me..I have to drive the Tesla now ) ) I believe what would help the car most, other than AWD, would be the ability to keep the car raised in the highest setting up to 25-30 mph. No car can plow snow for long periods of time, especially uphill.

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Your energy supply may be recouped but your wallet will be lighter! :biggrin:

Very true! The HPWC is taken by a red S85 from DE actually. Boo - 50amp is so slow!

 

[ChrisgG]

Great experience. Like you said, the Pirelli winter tires are designed for cold dry roads, not snow. I've been able to get started on a 14% grade in the slipperiest conditions (ice with snow on top) with my Michelin XICE xi3 tires. The car would have performed much better with better snow tires.

Regardless, now you know the limits of your vehicle with those tires, you will be a much safer winter driver!

While some reviews of the pirellis are saying it's not very good in snow none of them say they are very bad either. It's hard to believe it's such an imense difference as like I said I had often a hard time to get the car moving in flat terrain. Unfortunately trying the difference out by myself is quiet expensive... Well in that case the good news is that they have ofen bad reviews as they don't last very long. So I'll be forced to replace them soon

 

[AlMc]

While some reviews of the pirellis are saying it's not very good in snow none of them say they are very bad either. It's hard to believe it's such an imense difference as like I said I had often a hard time to get the car moving in flat terrain. Unfortunately trying the difference out by myself is quiet expensive... Well in that case the good news is that they have ofen bad reviews as they don't last very long. So I'll be forced to replace them soon

Chris, If you have 19" wheels I would go with Blizzaks...just my personal preference.

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Very true! The HPWC is taken by a red S85 from DE actually. Boo - 50amp is so slow!

Sam, There are very few Teslas in Delaware. A store in the Christiana Mall would probably change that. Not sure who owns that Red one. I know of two whites and another blue.

 

[SamGarber]

Chris, If you have 19" wheels I would go with Blizzaks...just my personal preference.

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Sam, There are very few Teslas in Delaware. A store in the Christiana Mall would probably change that. Not sure who owns that Red one. I know of two whites and another blue.

If only you could come to the Christiana Mall to buy a Tax free Tesla like I do my Apple products!

 

[Cottonwood]

Great experience. Like you said, the Pirelli winter tires are designed for cold dry roads, not snow. I've been able to get started on a 14% grade in the slipperiest conditions (ice with snow on top) with my Michelin XICE xi3 tires. The car would have performed much better with better snow tires.

Regardless, now you know the limits of your vehicle with those tires, you will be a much safer winter driver!

Well said, but better tires will help. As others have stated the Pirelli's that Tesla recommends are biased towards performance more than winter traction.

I've had very good luck with the Nokian Hakka 7's. My next set of winter tires will probably be the Hakka R2's. Here is a video of my MS going up my snow covered driveway with the Hakka 7's. For real winter driving, get real winter tires!

HitW Driveway Model S - YouTube

 

[Mario Kadastik]

For those of you planning trips in cold weather or at high altitude, please try our new (not-yet-published) version of EVTripPlanner as it compensates better for those things. Let us know how accurate it is for your trips. Thanks - and enjoy!

Cold weather/altitude-adjusted planner: http://evtripplanner.com/planner/carview_beta2
Reference sheets & calculations (PDF and XLS): http://evtripplanner.com/calcs.php

We have thousands of users each week now...think Tesla will integrate energy planning into Nav soon????

For us europeans, can we get a metric system too Wh/km, distances in km, temperatures in C, load in kg etc And indeed I would much appreciate if one could state that battery is at thermal equilibrium as a starting option so that the system would estimate the necessary consumption to heat the battery. So if the outside temp is listed as -20C, then assume the battery is as well (unless one knows what temp the battery protection system keeps once it falls below X).

Also I found a bug that if the outside temperature is given as 0F, then it assumes the field is empty and uses 72F. Putting 1F there as a minor variation got the proper result.

 

[jerry33]

While some reviews of the pirellis are saying it's not very good in snow none of them say they are very bad either. It's hard to believe it's such an imense difference as like I said I had often a hard time to get the car moving in flat terrain. Unfortunately trying the difference out by myself is quiet expensive... Well in that case the good news is that they have ofen bad reviews as they don't last very long. So I'll be forced to replace them soon

There are videos from last winter in one of the threads showing just how bad they are.

 

[PatP]

There are videos from last winter in one of the threads showing just how bad they are.

I'm the one who made some videos last year as one of the first owner to test them in the snow. I've replaced my stock Tesla winter tires after a week as they were so bad in real snow conditions that I've got stuck several times. It seems they may have updated the traction control firmware since then.

I've advised Tesla not to sell these tires in snowy climates but it seems they didn't listen.

 

[Cottonwood]

I'm the one who made some videos last year as one of the first owner to test them in the snow. I've replaced my stock Tesla winter tires after a week as they were so bad in real snow conditions that I've got stuck several times. It seems they may have updated the traction control firmware since then.

I've advised Tesla not to sell these tires in snowy climates but it seems they didn't listen.

At least last winter they offered the Hakka 7's which is what I chose after looking at the differences. This year there is not a real winter tire choice from Tesla, sad...for real winter tires, you will have to go to a third party and save some money; maybe it is not so bad. :wink:

 

[PatP]

At least last winter they offered the Hakka 7's which is what I chose after looking at the differences. This year there is not a real winter tire choice from Tesla, sad...for real winter tires, you will have to go to a third party and save some money; maybe it is not so bad. :wink:

If I remember the Hakka 7 were studded tires which was not an option for me. At least they should say the Pirelli's aren't adequate... Many people buy them without knowing. I advise all my contacts to go third party.

 

[SamGarber]

If I remember the Hakka 7 were studded tires which was not an option for me. At least they should say the Pirelli's aren't adequate... Many people buy them without knowing. I advise all my contacts to go third party.

2 snowstorms with my Blizzaks and I am very impressed.

 

[RainmakerJL]

Which tires ahould i get michelin X ice xi3 or blizzaks? https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=X-Ice+Xi3&partnum=445HR9XI3XL or hakka 2?

 

[bhuwan]

hakka r2

 

[Cottonwood]

If I remember the Hakka 7 were studded tires which was not an option for me. At least they should say the Pirelli's aren't adequate... Many people buy them without knowing. I advise all my contacts to go third party.

Yup, the Hakka 7's are studded; I call them my Rice Krispy tires on dry pavement, snap, crackle, pop; an electric car really makes you hear that. OTOH, the Hakka 8's (current model) hold the world speed record on ice, over 200 mph! At that speed, the traction needed to overcome aerodynamic drag is a real issue.

I had read a lot about new, non-studded tires being as good as studded tires. It seems that there were some unfair comparisons done with new rubber non-studded tires compared with old rubber studded tires. Nokian makes both studded and non-studded tires with the newest rubber compounds. Their web page clearly states that for icy conditions, studs win. Studded or Non-studded Tires That's why the Hakka 8's hold the ice speed record rather than the R2's. Still, most of my winter driving is on packed powder roads; if I had to buy a set of winter tires today, it would be the Hakka R2's, but if all I could find were Hakka 8's in stock, it would not break my heart to buy them. :wink:

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hakka r2

Hakka R2's in the Tesla MS size are getting hard to find this winter. Consider the Hakka 8's if you can't find the R2's. Embrace the Rice Krispy sound! In fact, the 8's meet some sort of new nordic standard on road wear by putting soft rubber cushions behind the studs so that they greatly reduce road wear.

 

[kevincwelch]

I've been driving around in my Xi3s now for a little while in this slush and snow, and I have to say it's dramatically better than the all season tires that came with the car. The traction, stopping power, control -- it's all better. Definitely worth it if you're going to encounter snow. Can't comment about the Hakkas, but the Michelin Xi3s are great.

 

[SamGarber]

Which tires ahould i get michelin X ice xi3 or blizzaks? https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=X-Ice+Xi3&partnum=445HR9XI3XL or hakka 2?

I was told months to wait for Hakka R2 so I went for Blizzaks.

 

[Mayhemm]

I'll be ordering my R2's as soon as I get my car this Spring to hopefully avoid supply issues next winter.

Though, by then they could have Hakka R3's...